Flurry of Blows with a Thri-Kreen monk?

[pokedigimaniac]

Okay. Let me explain the situation for you.

I have a player who is using a Thri-kreen monk (4 arms, remember), 1st level monk with a +1 LA Thri-Kreen (the Dark Sun version, sans psionics) for an ECL of 3. He is equipped with four nunchucks, and can make a Bite attack as a secondary attack. Therefore, his attack stats look like this, with his Str of 12 and Dex of 22 (using Weapon Finesse and Multiweapon Fighting):

1 Nunchaku at +6 (MainHand) for 1d6+1 damage
3 Nunchaku at +6 (OffHand) for 1d6 damage
1 Bite at +3 for 1d4 damage and possible poison

Now, if he were to Flurry of Blows... the text reads "She may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round." When I plug it into eTools, eTools only applies this penalty to the first attack, so it comes out as:

2 Nunchaku at +4/+4 (MainHand) for 1d6+1 damage
3 Nunchaku at +6 (OffHand) for 1d6 damage
1 Bite at +3 for 1d4 damage and possible poison

Is this correct, or should all the nunchaku attacks have that -2 penalty attached, despite being in the off-hands?

 

[glass]

The nunchaku attacks should all have the -2, and the bite should disappear alltogether because it isn't a special monk weapon or an unarmed strike.


glass.

 

[Cabral]

I thought monks with natural weapons could treat natural weapons as monk weapons ...

 

[FEADIN]

I thought monks with natural weapons could treat natural weapons as monk weapons ...

No, it was clarified in an old FAQ.
When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus x 1-1/2 or x1/2) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The monk can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows
It seems that your exemple is wrong for the damage also

 

[rowport]

Omigod... I am amazed at how frequently this question is debated on ENWorld!! Seriously, use the Search function if you have it, or just Google "natural weapons monk" or the like to find old threads.

The debate boils down to this:
1. RAW would suggest (some might say clearly states) that you cannot combine flurry with natural weapons.
2. However, both the FAQ, Sage Advice, and CustServ all say that you can combine them, as long as you apply the penalties for both to all attacks (i.e. -2 for flurry).
3. There is lots of debate about whether or not this is overpowered regardless of the rules interpretations, but the general consensus is that it is not overpowered to allow it, since most of the attacks will miss with the penalties.

I do play a Wererat Monk with the same situation, and have literally tried adding natural weapons versus not adding them, and found that it is worth it, but only barely. If you do this, be prepared to roll lots of dice but miss a lot.

 

[rowport]

No, it was clarified in an old FAQ.

Feadin, while there is lots of debate about the right/wrong answer here, this is not correct. Look at the current FAQ, specifically the Centaur Monk example.

 

[FEADIN]

Feadin, while there is lots of debate about the right/wrong answer here, this is not correct. Look at the current FAQ, specifically the Centaur Monk example.

I don't agree the answer is on page 7 of the actual FAQ and very clear and says:"A natural weapon (any natural weapon) is neither an unarmed strike nor a special monk weapon, so you can't use it along with a flurry".
I agree that you can do on top of the flurry off hand attacks with penalties for all the attacks of the round (clarifications in the FAQ).

 

[rowport]

I don't agree the answer is on page 7 of the actual FAQ and very clear and says:"A natural weapon (any natural weapon) is neither an unarmed strike nor a special monk weapon, so you can't use it along with a flurry".
I agree that you can do on top of the flurry off hand attacks with penalties for all the attacks of the round (clarifications in the FAQ).

Ah, I see what you mean. You are distinguishing between not being able to use natural weapons *in* a flurry, but agree with the example allow a natural weapon attack *after* the flurry as long as all attacks take both penalties.

That is what I meant in my #2 summary above, but this is admittedly part of the confusion about this rule interpretation. Put a different way, I understand what you mean, but know that Patryn will not agree. LOL Anyway... I am stepping out of this now because I see no value in starting the debate again! As I said above, pokedigimaniac: search out old discussions about this, and make your own game rule.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Ah, I see what you mean. You are distinguishing between not being able to use natural weapons *in* a flurry, but agree with the example allow a natural weapon attack *after* the flurry as long as all attacks take both penalties.

Whereas that distinction appears nowhere in the rules, and only as part of an [erroneous, IMHO] FAQ ruling.

If you allow it your game, don't come here complaining later about how nonhuman monks are totally overPOWrZed.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Put a different way, I understand what you mean, but know that Patryn will not agree.

Patryn's not the only one.