Flurry while grappling?

[Particle_Man]

Can one use flurry of blows in a grapple? I am assuming "yes" if one is taking the -4 to hit to attack one's opponent, but "no" if one is using the "damage one's opponent" option, as that uses grapple checks.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I agree.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Can one use flurry of blows in a grapple? I am assuming "yes" if one is taking the -4 to hit to attack one's opponent, but "no" if one is using the "damage one's opponent" option, as that uses grapple checks.

Right.

Assuming you're using the 'Attack opponent with light weapon' with an unarmed strike or special monk weapon. No daggers or shortswords!

-Hyp.

 

[VorpalStare]

Grapple Rules References?

Right.

Assuming you're using the 'Attack opponent with light weapon' with an unarmed strike or special monk weapon. No daggers or shortswords!

-Hyp.

How do you come to this conclusion? Is there any reason you can't use a flurry of blows with the "Damage Your Opponent" grapple option?

The monk's flurry of blows abilty allows the monk to make additional attacks. The "Damage Your Opponent" (as opposed to the "Attack Your Opponent" grapple option states that you make additional opposed checks in place of attacks, and addresses the exemption for monks from the non-lethal attack modifier, but does not discuss any other penalties for unarmed strikes in a grapple. I would assume that the usual flurry penalty (-2, -1, or -0) would apply to the grapple check, but I'm not so sure about that either, since I haven't found anything specific in the rules on this. What about power attack with unarmed strikes in a grapple using the "Damage Your Opponent" option?

Unarmed attacks are not treated as light weapons with regards to strength bonuses. Is there another rule that treats the monk's unarmed strikes as light weapons for grappling? Errata?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

How do you come to this conclusion? Is there any reason you can't use a flurry of blows with the "Damage Your Opponent" grapple option?

A Monk may only use Flurry of Blows when attacking with Unarmed Strikes or Special Monk Weapons.

When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired.

A grapple check is neither an unarmed strike nor a special monk weapon.

Therefore, a Monk may not Flurry with grapple checks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The "Damage Your Opponent" (as opposed to the "Attack Your Opponent" grapple option states that you make additional opposed checks in place of attacks, and addresses the exemption for monks from the non-lethal attack modifier, but does not discuss any other penalties for unarmed strikes in a grapple.

The Damage your Opponent option deals damage equivalent to an unarmed strike. It is not an unarmed strike.

What about power attack with unarmed strikes in a grapple using the "Damage Your Opponent" option?

If you're using the Damage your Opponent option, you're not using an unarmed strike, so 'power attack with unarmed strikes' is irrelevant.

Is there another rule that treats the monk's unarmed strikes as light weapons for grappling?

Strike, Unarmed: A Medium character deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike. A Small character deals 1d2 points of nonlethal damage. A monk or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes, at her option. The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike.

-Hyp.

 

[moritheil]

In a way, I think it's funny that two of the big guns of the forum have converged on a basic monk question.

Players: We defy the old priest!
DM: Fools! The old priest throws aside his mortal disguise, and stands revealed as Tiamat!
Players: *stare*
DM: Oh, and for some reason Asmodeus doesn't like you. He's here to kick your asses, too.
Players: ... Tiamat wasn't enough?!

 

[VorpalStare]

Good Rules Reference

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. [/i]

-Hyp.

That's the rules reference I was looking for. It's the simple rules you don't read very often that often get overlooked.

Thanks to Hypersmurf and Patryn for the clarification.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

No problem, Vorpal Stare!