D&D General [+] For (hypothetical) 6e: Which arcane caster class should be the "simple" one?

[M_Natas]

we had a similar thread not all that long ago and nobody could agree on what was the simplest caster, all the fullcasters ended being suggested, even druid.
"sorcerer is the simple caster because it has the fewest spell slots"
"metamagic is so complicated, warlock is the simplest because it only has 2/3 spell slots to worry about"
"but only having 3 slots means you've got to be far more on the ball with your spell use, cleric is the simple caster"
"clerics have channel divinity to worry about and are far more martial than other casters wizard is simplest it's just a spell list"
"but wizards have so many spells to keep track of and scribing..."
and so on and so forth

Yeah, the dnd Legacy makes that hard. Thematically, a Sorcerer or Warlock would make sense as simples, because both didn't got ther magic trough Training and Hard Work. One is just Born with it, the other toon a short cut trough a pact.
But the current Player base would reject the notion to dumb them down/simplify them too much.

So what could be a new class, that we could create that fits thematically?
The Nepo Magicican!

One or Both of his parents were strong magic users, so he got some innate magic, but he never had to learn. So he relies on some wands and the 5 same spells to cast.

The magic is just handed to him and he doesn't know how it works or why it works. Intelligence and Wisdom would be dumb stats, so he is a charisma caster.

Or alternatively something like a war caster class. Military school churning out spell casters who learn few spells to be send to the front line as quickly as possible.
The magic and spells need to be a simpler a possible to produce as much war casters as possible.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Ok. We clearly have different ideas of what “simple” means.

Possibly, in which case I would love to better understand how you intend to use the term.

For my part, a simple class is one where the gameplay resembles the 5e fighter (assuming a simple subclass).

Good simple design features:

• A small number of individual moving parts
• higher level features that lean on lower level features rather than adding new things
• A fairly small number of choices during character creation and leveling up, or at the very least careful pacing of those choices so that the player isn't making very many choices at one time
• At most a single feature that is complex to use in the moment, but preferable none.
  • Complexity to use means that it requires active engagement with the mechanical specifics in order to use the feature, like having to read a spell description every time you use it.

Spells are inherently more complex than weapons, in dnd. This is why dnd almost never has simple spellcasting classes.

This is why my proposal involves taking things like damage types/elements, and schools of magic, and making them work like weapons and skills for that class, so that when the Blaster Caster wants to zap someone, they just make a spell attack, and it's always an attack never asking for a save, and their Ice Magic always does 1d6 plus modifier, and the target's speed is reduced by 10ft, just like using a weapon with teh Slow Weapon Mastery.

Then Schools of magic come in, you learn maybe 2 at level 1, and they work like a magic skill. Just a description of what you can do with them, and leverage the conversation of the game to actually use them. No spells. Spells only come in with subclasses or as your "fighting style".

So,


Mana Points. You start with a number equal to your class level plus your spellcasting modifier. Things cost roughly 1 point per spell level equivalent, with as simple guidelines as we can manage. The DMG spell point table is completely unacceptable for a simple caster class. If the player has to check the chart to see how much a thing costs rather than just going, "Oh it's a level 3 effect, so it costs 3 points", you have failed to make the class simple. Ideally, the table showing how many points a given effect costs can be designed to fit on a class cheat sheet that all classes have, that is like the little sidebar sheets for daggerheart. Honestly, costing more powerful effects is probably the most inherently and unavoidably complex aspect of the class, but i think that it can be kept to a table that takes half or less space than the class feature by level table.


Choose 2 Elemental Masteries. You can Ready any element because you are proficient in all of them, but you can use the Elemental Mastery Properties of a Readied Element that you have chosen to Master. Each element has a range, damage type, damage die, and a mastery property. Possibly 1 or 2 other properties, but unless we are going to make this just generally part of how magic works in place of attack cantrips, best to avoid making the player learn a bunch of properties rather than just the ones they have chosen to master.

Spend mana to add range, damage dice, or make it AoE.

Choose 1 or 2 School Proficiency. These are a little more complex to use in that they are like skills, but I think a good designer can make them have good descriptions that give the scope and usage of each school with general rules for what you can do when you spend Mana.

Choose a Spellcasting Style. This is the dial, other than subclass choice, for complexity. You can specialize in Implements, gain a spellbook, specialize in a damage type by ignoring resistance to it and adding spellcasting mod to damage against creatures that don't have any resistance to it normally, and some other options that help shape how the class plays.

Subclass.

Number of attacks scales like the fighter, with some subclasses giving ways to spend more than one attack to do a powerful thing.

At least one subclass would be like the Champion for the Fighter, just higher crit chance and extra spellcasting style and something like "spend 1 mana to add 1d6 to a skill check or attack roll" type thing.

 

[Horwath]

No what is simplicity vs complexity?
probably a number of choices that you have during every turn.
caster is (almost)always more complex that non caster simply with prepared spells.
but that can vary also, by spell preparation, wizard can be most simple, depending on choice of feats also.

here is 4th level human invoker: tough origin feat
7 prepared spells, 4 cantrips. rituals do not matter now as those are out of combat.

now for same 4th level, we can take 1st level druid, 3rd level cleric(knowledge), astral elf with magic initiate wizard feat.
10 cantrips, 16 prepared spells, 17 if you count astral step teleport.

even if some spells here are rituals, they can be casted as action in combat if they are needed fast.

clearly, wizard is "easier" to play.
spell selection also matter, direct damage, fire n forget spell that mimic basic attacks are no brainer.

so simple caster needs:
fewer spell selection slots
simpler spells in mechanics
more spell slots to compensate for lack if adaptability.

 

[Minigiant]

My current Simple arcane caster which is a spammy cantrip user.

The Arcanist​

Class Features
As an Arcanist, you have the following class features.

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d6 per Arcanist level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 6 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d6 (or 4) + your Constitution modifier per Arcanisr level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: Light armor
Weapons: Simple weapons


Saving Throws: Dexterity, Intelligence

Skills: Choose two from: Animal Handling, Arcana, History, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Religion, and Survival

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
Leather armor, a dagger, and any simple weapon
(a) a component pouch or (b) an arcane focus
(a) an explorer’s pack or (b) a scholar’s pack

1ST LEVEL
Spellcasting
You begin to learn the simple but powerful strain of spellcasting typically for arcanists.

Cantrips
You know four cantrips of your choice from the arcanist spell list. You learn additional arcanist cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Arcanist table.

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the arcanist cantrips you know and replace it with another arcanist cantrip.

Spellcasting Ability
Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your arcanist spells, since you learn your spells through scholarly memory and mental discipline. You use your Intelligence whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Intelligence modifier when setting the saving throw DC for an Arcanist spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier

Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier

Spellcasting Focus
You can use an arcane focus as a spellcasting focus for your aracanist spells.

Offensive Forte
You naturally gravitate to a set of damage types with your cantrips. When you cast a cantrip that deals the associated damage types, you have a +1 to the attack roll or spell save DC for the spell increases by 1.

Astral Fire: radiant and fire
Burning Blizzard: acid and cold
Dark Fury: necrotic and psychic
Mage Venom: force and poison
Raging Storm: lightning and thunder
Raw Brutality: bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing

At higher levels, you gain additional Offensive Forte.

Defensive Forte
You instictually chose a cantrip to fortify for your defenses in a way that it is second nature to you.

Blade Guard: You know the Blade Ward cantrip. If you already know Blade Ward, you may learn another Arcanist cantrip. When you cast Blade Ward, it doesn't require Concentration.

Resistant: You know the Restistance cantrip. If you already know Resitance, you may learn another Arcanist cantrip. When you cast Resistance, it doesn't require Concentration.

Heightened Cantrips
Your skill at damaging cantrips increases. You can add 1 extra dice to the damage roll for your arcanist cantrips.

3RD LEVEL
SUBCLASS

4TH LEVEL
FEAT

5th LEVEL
Dual Cantrips
Your speed at cantrip cast increases. When you take the Magic action to cast an Arcanist cantrip, you may cast 2 Arcanist cantrips instead.

Cantrip Celerity
When you take the Dodge action, you can take the Magic action to cast an Aracanist Cantrip.


6TH LEVEL
Empowered Arcana
When you roll damage for an Arcanist cantrip, you can reroll a number of the damage dice up to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of one), and you must use the new rolls.

7TH LEVEL
SUBCLASS

8TH LEVEL
FEAT

improved Defensive Forte
Your skill with Defensive cantrips increases.

Improved Blade Guard: when you cast Blade Ward, the attacker substracts 2d4 from their attack roll.

Improved Resistant: when you cast Resistance, you may choose 3 damage types.

9TH LEVEL
Critical Cantrip
The edges of your offfensive cantrips are especially deadly. Each failure is extra brutal. When a creature rolls a 1 on a saving throw against one of your Arcanist cantrips, it automatically fails the save and takes twice the number of damage dice dealt by the spell, as if you scored a critical hit. The additional damage only applies to the creature that rolled a 1.

10TH LEVEL
Improved Heighten Cantrips
Your skill at damaging cantrips increases. You can add 2 extra dice to the damage roll for your arcanist cantrips.