For the good of video games, Anthem needs to fail hard

[MGibster]

Which comes access as “I didn’t like it, therefore it’s terrible”.

It's a little unfair for you to quote one sentence like that. I have given you some reasons why I thought the end to ME3 was terrible. My entire participation in this thread cannot be summed up as "I didn't like it, therefore it's terrible."

You’re allowed to just not like something.
You don’t have to convince other people it’s bad or prove tha it’s secretly terrible. You can just say you didn’t like it.

This is a message board. If I just say, "I didn't like it," there's not a whole lot of messaging to be had. Oddly enough in one of my first posts in this thread I just said that the ending was terrible with no commentary. I was invited to further expand upon those thoughts by saying what I'd do to improve the ending.

 

[Jester David]

Only if you do a direct sequal.

Yes... "direct sequel" was literally what you said in the post I was replying too...

 

[trappedslider]

Fallout 76 is another example its rubbish

Clearly you haven't been keeping up with the news.....It's gotten a hell of a lot better over the past few patches and the road map that they put out last week....https://fallout.bethesda.net/en/article/7Lw6jVvhjzSNzuUMmKZgwn/fallout-76-100-days-roadmap-for-2019

I just hit level 100 last night on my first and main character, I may go back to the character I was doing the diary but I'm focused on my main for now. I honestly tend to lose myself in playing FO76, I'll start playing and sytop paying attention to the time. I even reuped my xbox live sub to play it.

 

[Zardnaar]

Clearly you haven't been keeping up with the news.....It's gotten a hell of a lot better over the past few patches and the road map that they put out last week....https://fallout.bethesda.net/en/article/7Lw6jVvhjzSNzuUMmKZgwn/fallout-76-100-days-roadmap-for-2019

I just hit level 100 last night on my first and main character, I may go back to the character I was doing the diary but I'm focused on my main for now. I honestly tend to lose myself in playing FO76, I'll start playing and sytop paying attention to the time. I even reuped my xbox live sub to play it.

If I don't like something on release I am not going to wait around long enough to care about it later. I don't really want Fallout as an MMORPG in the 1st place.

So I'll sit it out until Fallout 5 or in the unlikely event they release more DLC for FO4. I quite like survival mode in FO4.

Even if that stuff is any good how much will it cost? Why support a company that releases a half assed game and then charges you money to fix it later down the line? Fallout 4 was decent enough out of the box, Far Harbour was brilliant, Nuka World story was weaker but the crazy OP weapons kinda helped. Even the mechanist DLC was fine for its price.
I basically just wanted a refinement and better story than what Fallout IV offered. Something like Far Harbour story and NPCs, overhauled settlement and crafting system, less buggy game, and several viable builds for you to figure out. You know the things Fallout IV was not great on (it kinda nailed the exploration and combat pillars).

 

[trappedslider]

If I don't like something on release I am not going to wait around long enough to care about it later. I don't really want Fallout as an MMORPG in the 1st place.

So I'll sit it out until Fallout 5 or in the unlikely event they release more DLC for FO4. I quite like survival mode in FO4.

Even if that stuff is any good how much will it cost? Why support a company that releases a half assed game and then charges you money to fix it later down the line? Fallout 4 was decent enough out of the box, Far Harbour was brilliant, Nuka World story was weaker but the crazy OP weapons kinda helped. Even the mechanist DLC was fine for its price.
I basically just wanted a refinement and better story than what Fallout IV offered. Something like Far Harbour story and NPCs, overhauled settlement and crafting system, less buggy game, and several viable builds for you to figure out. You know the things Fallout IV was not great on (it kinda nailed the exploration and combat pillars).

yeah that just told me you never paid attention and you were turned off when it was reveal that it wasn't what you wanted...since all of the upcoming stuff is Free and from my limited upstanding of FO4's survival mode (which every time I try to play on, the game crashes even with no mods..but it works wonders on any other mode) you still have to stay feed and hydrated and your weapons and armor need to be repaired every so often (I think thats from 3 and NV). And with a server cap of 24,it's hardly a MMORPG....24 is about the same size as a lobby on Halo's big team battle play list.

The only micro-transactions are the atomic shop which just cosmetic and the atoms can all be earned in game by doing basically anything.

At this point you're coming across as one those FONV fans on reddit who decry it for the fact that it isn't a new NV nor made by Obsidian.

 

[Imaculata]

The only micro-transactions are the atomic shop which just cosmetic and the atoms can all be earned in game by doing basically anything.

Every time I hear this defense, I groan.

There is no such thing as 'just cosmetics'. Many RPG's are all about these cosmetics; they are about tweaking your character and making him/her look nice. That makes cosmetics part of the core game content for many RPG's. They are the reward at the end of the road. So to then rip those rewards from the game and lock them behind a pay wall is atrocious.

And you may make the point that they can be bought with whatever ingame currency the game runs with; Atoms, gems, diamonds, gold, goldbars (honestly, I've seen so many variations of this by now, it baffles me people still defend this predatory tactic), and that these currencies can be earned by simply playing the game. But these games are always designed in such a way to make earning the currency through gameplay a complete grind, in order to give the player incentive to buy the currency for real money instead.



There was a huge fuss about this with Red Dead 2 not so long ago, with items that required ludicrous amounts of currency to buy, to the point where it would take decades for a player to buy the item through just playing the game. It blatantly put the predatory tactic on full display for anyone to see. Heck, we had the same thing with Star Wars Battlefront 2's Darthvader debacle, and EA's silly defense of it. Remember this?

https://kotaku.com/players-are-trying-to-calculate-how-long-it-takes-to-un-1820373111

This happened not that long ago, have you forgotten already?

"It's just cosmetics!" Pffft, don't make me laugh. You are being exploited! Remember when games were not about exploitation, not so long ago? Where you'd play through Soul Blade's entire Edge Master Mode, or try and get an S-rank on Resident Evil, just to unlock special weapons and alternate costumes? You know, games that rewarded you for achieving something, instead of trying to bait you into spending real money at every turn?

 

[cbwjm]

Every time I hear this defense, I groan.

There is no such thing as 'just cosmetics'. Many RPG's are all about these cosmetics; they are about tweaking your character and making him/her look nice. That makes cosmetics part of the core game content for many RPG's. They are the reward at the end of the road. So to then rip those rewards from the game and lock them behind a pay wall is atrocious.

And you may make the point that they can be bought with whatever ingame currency the game runs with; Atoms, gems, diamonds, gold, goldbars (honestly, I've seen so many variations of this by now, it baffles me people still defend this predatory tactic), and that these currencies can be earned by simply playing the game. But these games are always designed in such a way to make earning the currency through gameplay a complete grind, in order to give the player incentive to buy the currency for real money instead.

View attachment 105177

There was a huge fuss about this with Red Dead 2 not so long ago, with items that required ludicrous amounts of currency to buy, to the point where it would take decades for a player to buy the item through just playing the game. It blatantly put the predatory tactic on full display for anyone to see. Heck, we had the same thing with Star Wars Battlefront 2's Darthvader debacle, and EA's silly defense of it. Remember this?

https://kotaku.com/players-are-trying-to-calculate-how-long-it-takes-to-un-1820373111

This happened not that long ago, have you forgotten already?

"It's just cosmetics!" Pffft, don't make me laugh. You are being exploited! Remember when games were not about exploitation, not so long ago? Where you'd play through Soul Blade's entire Edge Master Mode, or try and get an S-rank on Resident Evil, just to unlock special weapons and alternate costumes? You know, games that rewarded you for achieving something, instead of trying to bait you into spending real money at every turn?

They are just cosmetics though. Compare it to games where you can actually spend money to gain a mechanical advantage. It's why there was such an outcry over battle front 2, those loot boxes were providing an actual in game benefit. Cosmetics though, really don't matter. You can play the game without having any of them and it won't affect gameplay at all.

 

[Imaculata]

They are just cosmetics though. Compare it to games where you can actually spend money to gain a mechanical advantage. It's why there was such an outcry over battle front 2, those loot boxes were providing an actual in game benefit. Cosmetics though, really don't matter. You can play the game without having any of them and it won't affect gameplay at all.

But they DO matter. They ARE the gameplay, especially in an RPG. RPG's are to many people all about making your character look nice. This is also the case for multiplayer games, where your character's appearance is a crucial part of how you present yourself as a player to other players. It is your avatar. It is the core gameplay, and gamedevelopers know how important they are to us, which is why they ask money for it.

A mechanical advantage is clearly worse, but that doesn't make it much better. They are both part of the same problem. If cosmetics weren't important, then why do so many RPG's have elaborate character creators? Clearly we care a great deal about how we look in a game. So much so, that some of us are willing to pay real money for some virtual clothes.

The biggest issue however, is that these cosmetics used to be part of the core reward system of the game. This is one of the main criticisms of Anthem right now, that it has a disappointing reward system where all weapons look the same. That is a HUGE issue for a looter-shooter, because being rewarded with cool looking weapons is what is supposed to keep people playing. But when developers decide to put these cosmetics behind a pay wall, something has now been removed from the core content, and this negatively effects the gameplay.

This also was a huge problem in Guild Wars 2, because players started to notice just how many of the cool items were now in the store, rather than as a dungeon reward. So why are we running dungeons at all then? They are not that much fun to run, and there are only poor rewards at the end. All the cool stuff is in the store, so why would we keep playing if the game feels like all sense of reward has been sucked from its reward system?

 

[Zardnaar]

But they DO matter. They ARE the gameplay, especially in an RPG. RPG's are to many people all about making your character look nice. This is also the case for multiplayer games, where your character's appearance is a crucial part of how you present yourself as a player to other players. It is your avatar. It is the core gameplay, and gamedevelopers know how important they are to us, which is why they ask money for it.

A mechanical advantage is clearly worse, but that doesn't make it much better. They are both part of the same problem. If cosmetics weren't important, then why do so many RPG's have elaborate character creators? Clearly we care a great deal about how we look in a game. So much so, that some of us are willing to pay real money for some virtual clothes.

The biggest issue however, is that these cosmetics used to be part of the core reward system of the game. This is one of the main criticisms of Anthem right now, that it has a disappointing reward system where all weapons look the same. That is a HUGE issue for a looter-shooter, because being rewarded with cool looking weapons is what is supposed to keep people playing. But when developers decide to put these cosmetics behind a pay wall, something has now been removed from the core content, and this negatively effects the gameplay.

This also was a huge problem in Guild Wars 2, because players started to notice just how many of the cool items were now in the store, rather than as a dungeon reward. So why are we running dungeons at all then? They are not that much fun to run, and there are only poor rewards at the end. All the cool stuff is in the store, so why would we keep playing if the game feels like all sense of reward has been sucked from its reward system?

This some cool stuff needs to be free.

Game costs are spiraling so devs need to make money somehow. Quality dlc is one way.

 

[trappedslider]

Every time I hear this defense, I groan.

There is no such thing as 'just cosmetics'.

I'm guessing you haven't been paying attention to Fallout 76 either... Rather than offer a Season Pass, Bethesda will be funding the development of Fallout 76 DLC with the sale of micro-transactions.

https://fallout.bethesda.net/en/article/2a4GTCpUPyEsGCGYWyM6Q2/welcome-to-the-atomic-shop

https://www.polygon.com/2018/10/31/18049482/fallout-76-atoms-currency-real-money-atomic-shop

TBH fallout 76 isn't a traditional RPG,and the atom shop is the way they are funding the upcoming stuff...just like 343 is using the req system to fund Halo 5's new stuff. https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/halo-5-guardians-req-system-introduction

Here's what the atom shop is funding

https://bethesda.net/en/article/1vt...ild-appalachia-preview-brewing-and-distilling

and then full road map for the year : https://bethesda.net/en/article/7Lw6jVvhjzSNzuUMmKZgwn/fallout-76-100-days-roadmap-for-2019

Now an argument could be made that the original intent was for beth$eda to sell perk packs given that they are RNG and used to get new perks or level up perks for your character but they changed course due to the fallout (no pun intended) from the recent court cases in Europe and battlefront 2.