For the gun people, a crazy player question ...

[ledded]

I understand your pain man.

We were lucky that when we started a similar campaign that everyone 'got it'.

Even so, my character tends to be a bit more of a 'we need a bigger gun' type guy, but it's more in-character than a players urge to just stack as many dice as possible.


1) Take the guy aside and let him know that the game really isnt all about making everything go boom as good as you can. Assure him that there will be plenty of opportunities to exercise his proclivity towards 'boom' but stuff outside the realm of reality for the type characters they are playing may do more harm than good. Remind him that there are plenty of ways within the game mechanic to do interesting things that aren't just huge damage machines but may be very cool and fit his concept nicely anyway. I had a character in Modern once that hated guns and created a feasible system for using darts with airguns, strange pharmecutical concoctions, and combinations of acid and blasting caps that while didnt do a bunch of damage were very interesting to use and I got lots of laughs and strange looks.

It sounds like you have a good group, and trying to find a nice middle ground IMO would be of benefit, not matter how much it annoys you. Sometimes despite your best efforts you will get a player that just does not 'get it'. Mitigating or compromising may be the only way to save your game, as much as it rankles. Find a way to 'let him shine' that you can live with and wont disrupt the game.

Even taking the other players aside and trying to get them to help you subtly reign him in a little can be a big help.

If he still insists then...

2) My advice is to use the guidelines above to make the bang-stick hard to make and extremely risky to use (think more in lines of double-tap instead of burst, though... burst takes *5* rounds to get that extra damage and this is not that efeective). Quote as much science as possible. I'm no expert, but the above comments seem quite good. It's just not that feasible to do what he wants or more people would probably do it. I've read stories of vietnam-era booby traps made similar this, and most of the time they inflicted nasty wounds to the feet and legs but didnt completely vaporize anyone (as far as I know). I would definitely take into the effect the amount of recoil this thing would generate. Even if it didnt fly to pieces when he hit someone, on the off chance that it did discharge all three barrels he, IMO, would most likely be injured somehow. I once shot a *very* short double-barrelled sawed-off 12 gauge one-handed and afterwards it went straight to my mental list of Very Stupid Things To Not Do Again, with a black check-mark right next to it. My wrist/hand was pretty sore and I *very* nearly ended up with the ends of the barrels in my forehead.

If it still wont rest then,

3) Let him live with the consequences. Definitely not an optimal solution, but if all else fails let him get injured with his stupidity, suffer censure from the institute, get arrested, etc, just make sure they all understand the possibility of consequences ahead of time. Also, make sure they face enemies where uber-violence will not work, they need to use their head to win the day.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Well, I actually ran everything before I got Ralt's reply, but I'm definately printing it out and telling him while it "sort" of worked once, I wouldn't suggest using it again.

As above, for the "Homemade AP Rounds", I just ignored the suggestion for the moment then found the article I mentioned above, then copied and emailed it out to everybody in the group. As part of my general game research. I also now know more about keyless entry and sewer systems than I ever thought I'd need to.

We suggested that he might find a character with different strengths more entertaining to play. He decided to take on some pretty heavy hitters on his own ... which was a Very Bad Idea. I understood why he was doing it, and I'm sure he thought it was a good idea at the time, but it really wasn't. Literally, everybody else in the building was jumping out the window to get away while he's lying in wait. Two rounds and a critical hit later he was at -6. He DID force a MDT save with his boom stick (I rated it at 4d10, and he managed to hit in the surprise round) which the enemy failed ... unfortunately the enemy also had Fast Healing and was up the next round.

So yea, he got injured with his own stupidity. Badly. And nobody was around to heal him. We all knew the gig was up, at that point, so my fiance says: "Well, you can come back as a Charismatic 'Face' character, we really need somebody that can talk to people." and his response was that he'd fix the problems with this character and come back as Oliver North V with a bigger gun. The "problems" being a lack of bigger guns and explosives.

So I shake my head at that point and tell him if he wants to burn 2 Action Points he can stabilize at -9 and be "Left For Dead", since he wasn't going to draw up a "new" character anyway and it'd save me the time of writing in somebody named Oliver North V to replace Oliver North IV.

And he already faced censure from the Institute for some OTHER cowboy B.S. (charging 5 guys with suppressed MP5s ... alone ... I storytold that one to a non-fatal-for-everybody-involved conclusion and am writing it out of the Story Hour entirely) ... In-Character, In-Story solutions seemed to help a little on that end as now everybody at the table nods and says: "Yea, we shouldn't F with the guys in black BDUs with the machine guns. Orders from upstairs."

I haven't "taken him aside", but I did say at the begining that the game I wanted people to write me up a character background for a "normal" person who had one unusual or paranormal experience. That I wanted them to create people you could meet on the street who were then thrust into extraordinary situations. Everybody else gave me good background, fleshed out backgrounds, with relatively normal people. First game day he comes to the table with: "Um, a military guy, did some wet-work in Rwanda. A sniper." fin. Sum.

Just a total disconnect from what I'd said. Everybody else at the table said: "That wasn't really what we were looking for." and he starts running off that he's got "friends" with all kinds of guns in their barns with enough firepower to start a war and that's normal for him, that's people he can meet on the street, yadda yadda. I say: "Well, with this system, you're not going to get a whole lot of mileage out of using all your feats for combat, especially for this game." Double-tap, far shot, precise shot, point-blank shot, dead aim ...

At the table I've said, several times: "You'd probably have more fun and do more with somebody a little more investigative. The group needs a Face." Nada. I appologize that there's not alot of combat because that's not what Dark*Matter is about ... nada.

I try to work with him, definately. At one point he used Demolitions to examine the car after everybody else had been over it to determine all kinds of data (charge in the gas-tank, remote detonator). Then I allowed him to use Demo again, at a big negative, to defeat a relatively simple security system. Just because nobody else had thought to take Disable Device (doh) and we needed to get through the system to progress (I thought somebody had taken it). Reasoning that they both work with circuits, but I wouldn't suggest it with anything more advanced.

But there's just not alot of combat. I can't even introduce any adversarial NPCs because his first reaction is: "I charge the guys with machineguns." His opening comment every game since then has been: "You should have seen your face when I said 'I charge the guys with machine guns.'" And I say: "Well, I honestly wasn't expecting it." Because it's a braindead move, and endangered everybody in the group. Can't even let his actions land him in trouble because he gets shot up and dies in two rounds and wants to bring in "Oliver North V, VI, VII, VII" etc. with a bigger gun ... because the problem isn't that he tried to take on badguys everybody KNEW to run from alone with a home-made gun, but because he didn't have, I don't know, a man-portable dirctional-fire nuke launcher or whatever.

So the message has been sent in as many ways as I know how without getting unfriendly about. I've said: "This isn't the kind of game we're playing." and it just rolls off. RPGs = Doing Damage With Weapons to him, apparently. And he's old enough to know what kind of game he wants to play, he's got kids in college. So, really, at this point it's deal or split.

--fje

 

[takyris]

This is becoming more of a general player issue, but... split.

I've got no problem with players who want to be useless or wrong for the game -- I can just ignore them. But when they mess up the game for others (like starting fights that drag in the other PCs), then it messes up everyone's fun.

My honest suggestion is to show the whole group what happens. Forget the action point stuff to stabilize, and give the team a big ol' TPK. Then let the rest of the group deal with that player. The only other alternative is simply to kick him out, not out of meanness, but simply because his style ain't the style of the game, and his style is capable of overthrowing the game's style because of its aggressive nature.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Yea. It's a general player-issue thing at this point. I'm trying to take it one thing at a time, though. I'm hoping if I shoot down each of his ideas with well-reasoned, well-researched logic, and let everybody else see what kind of problems EVERYBODY gets into for the B.S., and let him see that all his cowboy crap gets him is shot up ... he'll get the point.

I'm flying tight, trying to mitigate it all and make it affect the game at the table as little as possible ... I'm burnin' a touch of steam here, because that lets me approach the table with a grin and the flair I want to have. I want the game to be fun for everybody, including him, if there's any way to keep it as such.

I'm fixing the bang-stick deal here and now. I'll give it a few more sessions, next semester. If if it doesn't get right soon, though, I'll split. I've got two players (of five) that I'll be able to keep, another that might join, and I can run with a group of three if I need to. Just unfortunate that so many of the players are tied together and one person doesn't seem to want to play the same game the rest of us are.

--fje

 

[takyris]

Yo, Heap,

Sounds like a good plan. The only problem I've had with trying it your way is this: After mitigating things and trying to ease people into it for so long, when you finally snap and let it really affect things, people say, "Oh, man, that was unfair," and it becomes obvious that you did it based on you personally having had enough. It's like refusing to let party members die for five sessions in a row and then killing three people during the sixth. Killing one party member in the first session would have gotten the point of "Be more careful" across more effectively, and might have avoided the three party deaths later on that happened because people were sure that you wouldn't kill anyone.

Not saying that it can't work. Just saying that you should be careful.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Ahhh, Players, there should be a hunting season on some of them...

I feel your pain, buddy, I really do. See, I've got the Hammerhead Crew, and while they're a fun group, sometimes they act just like your guy does. Of course, they're between 18 and 31, so...

Next time he "charges with my machineguns" smile evilly and say: "I'd roll for surprise, but I'd rather smile instead."

Let him kill them. Then have it called a mistaken ID. From the battlefield to late night cop-shootouts, mistakes are made all the time. Kids get killed, old people, some guy going home to be with his kids.

He may like the "Go down with a gun and a grin" approach, but see how much he likes being handcuffed and tossed in "Pound my booty prison". If he wants to fight the cops, well, he's already known for being "Armed and Stupid" so they're not gonna mess around, they'll want him alive, and he won't be so heroic puking up his lungs after a good dose of tear gas.

Then, when his next character goes down to the arms room, have the guy hand him a TASER and a Nerf bat and tell the PC: "Sorry, but the agency has revoked your teams firearms priviledges until a new member is with the team for longer than several hours."

If that doesn't work, look at him when he charges something with machinegun's blazing and ask him (or his wife): "Are you really 12 years old, or are you compensating for something that is none of our business? The rest of us kinda outgrew Rambo when we were 19."

Or, my favorite way of dealing with Hammerhead Zak...
"I'll give your PC that mega-gun right out of Japanimation if you agree to put Eunich under Sex on the PC sheet, and make the features out to look like Michael Jackson."

I agree, some things can't be handled with the soft touch, because thier heady-bones are made of DU armor....

 

[ledded]

Well, I actually ran everything before I got Ralt's reply, but I'm definately printing it out and telling him while it "sort" of worked once, I wouldn't suggest using it again.<snip>

Well, honestly, it sounds like you've went far above and beyond to work with this guy, and he seems completely determined to screw up your game for some reason.

Short of literally telling him, in front of everyone, "Hey, Ollie II-MCXII, you're f***ing up the game for everyone, so just freakin' stop it", you might just have to bail. It sounds like he is impacting the whole flavor of what sounds like a very fun game (the story hour is darn good so far, though I was able to pick this guy out pretty quick ). I honestly can't picture why this guy would continue to be such an adolescent, especially at his age. Sure, even I occasionally love to play in games sometimes where you get to be Biff Hardslab and his two-machine guns (i.e. our "We were like gods once" one-off short campaign), but I'm adult enough to know *when those games are being played, and when they are NOT*. And if the GM or other players had to tell me, quite honestly I'd be pretty damn embarressed by it.

Though, it's just me, but I would take him aside either before or after a game and tell him your concerns before you bail... it might just help, and if it doesnt then you can honestly say to everyone that you did everything you could.

Good luck man.

Ralts, man, you sound like you have one crazy group there. More power to ya.

 

[Danos402]

Crazy player ideas/notes /suggestions

Heap Thaumaturgist:

Now what kind of 10 gauge does he have ..single shot , semi auto, lever action, pump? if you didnt specify then say his weapon was recalled because someone is doing an investigation in bear country and needs that one and re-issue him a single shot one... hard for him to carry 3 of them.. LOL
firstly the torque from his weapon would probably snap the shaft of said weapon...if not tear soem muscles in his arms... think swinging all out one way and having about 200 lbs of force snap you around the other way.. can we say ouch ?

from what you tell me it's in effect a bang stick .. now the fact it is a 10 gauge is a bit overkill.. I have fired once a doublebarreled 10 gauge shotgun (both barrels simultaneously) and believe me it's on my "dont do it again ever list" .. later on in a gaming session.. I and some other hunting nuts were with a guy who wanted a sawed of 10 gauge double barrel (cut down to 12" so he could fire both barrels one handed) we basically told him he could but he wouldnt like to make all the rolls required .. well he did fire it and the general consensus was that he would have broken his wrist. later we took him out and had him shoot a "less than legal 12 gauge" and 20 gauge ... He tried like a fool to fire it one handed and left a nice welt on his head. teh 20 gauge went slightly better.. there is a reason teh barrels are on there to reduce the weight.. sounds like the guy has never fired a 10 gauge before.. I say give him the 10 but give him only a single shot version... one of the older ones that once you crack it open you have to extract the shell and then reload it close the breach and such.. it's a lot slower than the old pump style 12 gauge .. do not let him know about the other guages like the 8 6 4 and 2 gauges either those are pretty much only good for anti-aircraft these days

and case and point a bang stick is not a swinging weapon it's a thrusting one.. he should have fencing training not baseball for it.. and also he is not in the water and no sharks around.. so the way he wants it is more like a 3 headed pickaxe or something.. lol good luck fighting in a narrow corridor .. and if he misses and hits a wall or floor it goes off automatically.. still doing awful things to his body (think whiplash in a very bad way)


Dana _ Jorgensen : it's not the fact he is loading a double barreleld shot gun rather that he is trying to load and unload 3 single shot shotguns... and if he
makes it along the lines of a bang stick... there is more to it than
just quick loading ..
http://bluewaterhunter.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/shop_bangsticks_biller.html
. "To reload another round, turn safety screw into the safety position, simply unscrew the head, remove the spent shell and securely position a new round onto the base and ready position. Secure the head back into its original position and remove safety." so he has to unscrew the head/ unload/rescrew/ the head, reset the pin, and do this not once but 3 times... how many actions is that in one combat turn ?

Warlord Ralts: :I applaud your testing and your time put into your
experiments with the rake idea..and implementing it And
what's the point ..sounds like the old gaming
term "munchkin" is what heap Thaumaturgist has on
her/his hands ..

Testubo I agree with give him the dyanamite and hit him with a flame thrower or have him get trapped in a burning building ...


you could always tranq him with komodo dragon saliva.. if I were part of an organization and had funds i would probably be fasacinated with some research along those lines

http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/ReptilesAmphibians/Facts/FactSheets/Komododragon.cfm

or worse things to do..... you can check out this page use the venom from the puffer fish and coat a needle /arrow dart, caltrop

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ttx/ttx.htm

and read the amount listed under the title
Physiological Properties of TTX
"....A single milligram or less of TTX - an amount that can be placed on the head of a pin, is enough to kill a man" you could also rework the toxin into something less lethal which paralyzes him and gives him the semblance of death and unless his team is willing to carry corspe back with them and wait 24 or so hours for his funeral then Idont think he will be saved by them... (watched "serpent and the rainbow " too many times)

if he is really concerned with dealing with opponents who wear body armor .. there are a few solutions to dealing with them safely...or them dealing with him... easy way to deal with a psycho swinging a twohanded pickaxe of doom.. toss a flash grenade in front of him.. then open fire anyone who's so much as glanced at a camera flash knows it does dazzle you but magnesium flares are far worse and burn longer than a microsecond.. works really well if they are hiding in a dark area (see the movie The big Hit"
another solution i would recommend is arrows/crossbow bolts they do penetrate kevlar and can be poisoned... with the above mentioned goodies..also tranq rifles (stolen from animal control /game wardens) filled with different substances... heck if they know he charges at them at first chance what would he do on a greased floor?
beanbag rounds :these are great for knockdown and are non lethal.. unles you hit something like a head shot.. but from what iunderstand they do not penetrate armor but do knock you down to the ground something like 2200 psi pressure on impact
this site has some more variable rounds for 12 gauge... why does he want a 10 gauge.. ??
http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__17/Specialized_Shotshell_Ammuniti/specialized_shotshell_ammuniti.html
dunno how to determine some of the damage I recall years ago there was something on the market that I think it was called a shatterdisc round for the 12 gauge as well .. this was a series of 10 discs packed in a shell each scored in a pizza pie pattern so when they were fired they tumbled in nasty little pie shaped wedges...


sorry for such a long post this is the 3rd attempt to post on the forum so I am a little tired hope this helps /// and remember if he is gonna go with over kil his weapon won't help him in tight spaces ... you can't swing a pickaxe if you are crawling in a tunnel , and he can't swing it either if he is fighting around say fuel tanks and gas lines under pressure becaue if he doesnt hit a soft target **boom** ...


Oh and just read further on the forum.. about him leaving stuff in the van... we always assumed that unless stated no-one inspects their weapons /cleans them unless they specifically say they do... so what happens if someone sneaks in and glues/cements/wedges a marble inside his pickaxe/pitchfork of doom ... and he doesnt notice it ? then Warlord Ralk I know knows the answer to this one... when a firearm muzzle is obstructed completely they tend to have a habit of exploding and inflicting shrapnel damage to everything .. so send that sneaky NPC to "alter their ammo/weapons" you know load all their beautiful weapons with say the first round is live the rest are either duds or blanks.. could get really sticky.. and looks like the knife fighters haev to do all the hard work eh ??


again sorry for the long post and all the reference pages and such..

maybe I will post a note on "things to make the Players nervous and Paranoia rolls.... .

 

[Pierce]

later we took him out and had him shoot a "less than legal 12 gauge" and 20 gauge ... He tried like a fool to fire it one handed and left a nice welt on his head. teh 20 gauge went slightly better

Waitaminute - he shot the 12 ga. one handed (earning a lump), then tried to shoot the 20 ga the same way??!? Sounds like a frontrunner in the 2005 Darwin Awards.

 

[mmadsen]

Waitaminute - he shot the 12 ga. one handed (earning a lump), then tried to shoot the 20 ga the same way??!? Sounds like a frontrunner in the 2005 Darwin Awards.

A 20-gauge shotgun fires a smaller round than a 12-gauge. Shotgun gauge has a peculiar definition: the number of lead spheres of that diameter that would add up to one pound.