D&D General For the Love of Greyhawk: Why People Still Fight to Preserve Greyhawk

[Zardnaar]

That's more than fair -and actually mirrors my opinion.

Clearly it's a labor of love with an attempt to do the original material justice. But the actual adventure - why is it so hard to write a good published adventure with the resources these guys have?

Adventure design is really hard.

No company can consistently make great Adventures.

 

[Mortellan]

Just came on here to say great topic Snarf Zagyg! I've been beating the fandom drums with Greyhawk deep dives for a few editions now. So I love to see so many other people weighing in and discussing the setting. Keep it up guys!

 

[Eyes of Nine]

I mean, honestly? I just liked Darlene's map.
For me, I'd be pretty happy if Greyhawk was just another continent on Toril.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I have always mentally defined "Sword and Sorcery" as "Like the Conan stories", but in the second definition listed here rather than the first. If a design goal of an entire campaign setting was even more pro-murder-hobo than base D&D....well....i'm not sure that's a good goal.

Murder-hobo seems like a pretty popular style of play. Why not make a setting in which murder-hoboing makes sense?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I would say that Theros (mythic play) is a counterpoint to that.

That is an expansion of the base rules in the PHB and it is optional. The issue, as I see it, is that gritty play involves a restriction on the options in the PHB.
To get gritty play as I see it, one would have to:
1) No ASI on level up. This makes lower level monsters more relevant for longer. I would allow feats though.
2) No long rests in the wilderness. Long rest needs a secure base in a town village or fortified camp guarded by hirelings.
This would be the minimum and I could see some as regarding it as not gritty enough.

For extra grit:
Characters start off as sidekicks and get promoted in to classed characters. Add in a lingering wounds system, like every time a character fails a death save they pick up a lingering wound.
For lack of low level magic, make the full casters multiclass to at least 3 levels in another class.

None of this, is stuff that I could see WoTC as ever officially supporting. If you have a different view of what is gritty play I am interested in hearing about it.

Of course for a real old skool feel make 'em roll 3d6 in order . I, of was a generous DM back in the day. I allowed roll 3d6, 7 times, pick the best 6 and if the ability mods added up to less than 2, I allowed a reroll.

 

[FrozenNorth]

You’d also want to severely limit classes to reduce the amount of magic in the players’ hands (fighters, rogues, non-magical rangers, non-magical paladins, divine sorce (for limited healing) and other sorc (for limited magic)), and I really don’t see that going well.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Murder-hobo seems like a pretty popular style of play. Why not make a setting in which murder-hoboing makes sense?

It is a popular style of play. It is also pretty setting agnostic.

 

[TwoSix]

You’d also want to severely limit classes to reduce the amount of magic in the players’ hands (fighters, rogues, non-magical rangers, non-magical paladins, divine sorce (for limited healing) and other sorc (for limited magic)), and I really don’t see that going well.

I don't think you need to go that far, although I also don't think a rebooted Greyhawk should be "Sword & Sorcery" in the vein of Conan, either. (I said it earlier, but I think Black Company, First Law, and the Witcher are better literary inspirations.)I think the important thing is to give PC magic classes a sense of gravity and place. A wizard PC should be an apprentice to a wizard who apprenticed to Mordenkainen. If they meet an NPC wizard, there should be a recognition of each other, because there aren't that many wizards in the world and they all know each by sight and/or reputation.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I think the important thing is to give PC magic classes a sense of gravity and place. A wizard PC should be an apprentice to a wizard who apprenticed to Mordenkainen. If they meet an NPC wizard, there should be a recognition of each other, because there aren't that many wizards in the world and they all know each by sight and/or reputation.

I get your point, but low magic settings in D&D tend to inflate the importance of casters vs. non-casters. Low magic tends to mean fewer magical items, which are a way to give non-casters extraordinary abilities outside combat, and it also means fewer countermeasures against casters, which also benefits them.

Again, while I understand why you’d want to ensure the feel that there are few spellcasters andthey sll know each other, given that half the classes are at least part-casters, I find that would be difficult to do while maintaining verisimilitude. A typical 1st level party could consist of a paladin, ranger, wizard, cleric and hexblade warlock, after all.

 

[jasper]

@Urriak Uruk.. However, if you make Greyhawk too vague, it seems more like a kitchen sink (using your words) that can be planted in any "generic default fantasy."….

It is NOT Kitchen Sink. It is Kitchen Chef. Where you have a well known menu aka the modules. But enough blank spots, and permission for the chef (DM) to make it their own.