D&D General For those that find Alignment useful, what does "Lawful" mean to you

[Maxperson]

Well yes, she is lawful neutral because of her personal code. She doesn't have a compunction to act toward society, which is neutral. Personal code isnt some lawful alignment lock.

No, the code itself isn't everything, but it will usually mean lawful. As I said in my last response to you, if the person is chaotic, they will not follow their code well.

Also from the 3E PHB

Lawful Good, "Crusader"​

A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I am saying. This doesn't say anything about having to be part of a group.

Chaotic Good, "Rebel"​

A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he’s kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.

And that says nothing at all about a code. The moral compass might shift like the wind.

 

[James Gasik]

True Neutral is basically someone who really doesn't care about such debates. They don't feel particularly inclined towards following any judgement or moral guides but their own. In older editions, there was some nonsense about "upholding the balance", which comes from the original views of Law vs. Chaos as per Michael Moorcock's books, but really, a Neutral character doesn't concern themselves with "order or balance". They do what makes sense to them, and if you don't like it, too bad.

 

[le Redoutable]

well I thought TN were always within bounds, never using freedom ( like Animals who are slaves to the planet ) ....

... when I say Slaves to the planet I could also say Martial Arts is the tool by which a person can get guided by following any Animal Path

so TN now is Guide

 

[nevin]

oh god... I know this isn't a political thread, but wow that changes (in a bad way) my thoughts about CN


also this is why I want to spread out and add more alignments including Unaligned.

in the past I have written "Chaotic Goodish" "Punisher" "I hate everyone" "Evil with exceptions for friends" and "Chaotic Jimmy" (the last one you would need to know my group to get).

but that's the problem with the tags we like to use. John Locke the guy that inspired the us founding fathers and the magna carta was a libertarian.

 

[Voadam]

"For those that find Alignment useful, what does "Lawful" mean to you?"

I find alignment useful as a DM.

I use it to give a roleplaying hook to a monster or NPC.

I also used it heavily in 3e/Pathfinder as a cosmic force descriptor with mechanical effects.

As a roleplaying hook alignment is an add on dimension after you get a monster's description.

So a LE orc is portrayed differently than a CE orc.

A lawful fey might be portrayed with a focus on the weird rules that bind fey interactions, they might be a devoted servant to some fey lord or a cause, they might be a leader with a grand plan and vision, etc.

Law has a bunch of different connotations, any of them could be an interesting roleplay hook. It can vary from monster to monster, NPC to NPC. It does not need to be consistent.

As a cosmic force I used to house rule assign constructs a [LAW] descriptor the same way I gave fey [CHAOS] and undead [EVIL] to increase the mechanical impacts of cosmic alignment forces in D&D/Pathfinder. I also gave planetouched and fiendish type templates and divine caster classes the descriptors of their planar connection whether they were alignment or elemental or other.

I have no use for policing alignment roleplay roles on PCs. I usually divorced the 3e mechanics of PC alignment from roleplay, so a paladin could be [GOOD] and interact mechanically as such with supernatural [EVIL] but I do not want to micromanage how a PC should act.

 

[Baron Opal II]

For me, Lawfuls find that the way for the most happiness / benefit for themselves, and also the most people, is following the rules of society and putting society before self. Chaotics find the the most happiness for themselves, and others, I guess, are to put the self before society.

Good / Evil is what is acceptable to do to yourself and others to find that happiness.

 

[Maxperson]

Neuteral means a mix of Good and Evil behaviors. The scales of balance lean somewhere near the middle.

That mix, though, isn't going to balance near the middle. How many old ladies saved = beating a dog to death? If I throw in some food for the homeless is it too much good? There's no way to know the weight of moral or immoral acts. The mixed good and evil behaviors will lean one way or the other. There's just no way that they can be intentionally or even accidentally balanced. It's the same with law and chaos.

Neutral is, "I don't believe in murdering people, but I'm not going to risk my life to help someone being murdered. It's not my business to tell the cops what I saw. They can figure it out on their own." and "I'm not going to go out of my way to break the law, but I don't really care if it happens." They have beliefs, but their convictions are not strong enough to shift them towards law, chaos, good or evil.

 

[payn]

No, the code itself isn't everything, but it will usually mean lawful. As I said in my last response to you, if the person is chaotic, they will not follow their code well.

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I am saying. This doesn't say anything about having to be part of a group.

The lawful good description discusses how compelled by society the character is. This illustrates the difference between lawful neutral person (Which you are specifically talking about) and a lawful good one. It's how they relate to society. Not sure how much more I can spell this out...

And that says nothing at all about a code. The moral compass might shift like the wind.

Wow, so the actual word code isnt used so it must not be a code? "He follows his own moral compass" how is that not a code? The funny thing is, a chaotic person with a code is actually more likely to strictly follow it because they will use their code as a guide regardless of the situation.

 

[Yaarel]

That mix, though, isn't going to balance near the middle. How many old ladies saved = beating a dog to death? If I throw in some food for the homeless is it too much good? There's no way to know the weight of moral or immoral acts. The mixed good and evil behaviors will lean one way or the other. There's just no way that they can be intentionally or even accidentally balanced. It's the same with law and chaos.

Neutral is, "I don't believe in murdering people, but I'm not going to risk my life to help someone being murdered. It's not my business to tell the cops what I saw. They can figure it out on their own." and "I'm not going to go out of my way to break the law, but I don't really care if it happens." They have beliefs, but their convictions are not strong enough to shift them towards law, chaos, good or evil.

I donno. Its often mix. Like someone stabs their coworker in the back to get a raise to feed ones family.

 

[Maxperson]

The lawful good description discusses how compelled by society the character is. This illustrates the difference between lawful neutral person (Which you are specifically talking about) and a lawful good one. It's how they relate to society. Not sure how much more I can spell this out...

Where does it mention society at all? This is what you posted.

"Lawful Good, "Crusader"

A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished."

Wow, so the actual word code isnt used so it must not be a code? "He follows his own moral compass" how is that not a code? The funny thing is, a chaotic person with a code is actually more likely to strictly follow it because they will use their code as a guide regardless of the situation.

A moral compass is not a code. It's not refined enough and can shift.