D&D General For those that find Alignment useful, what does "Lawful" mean to you

[Flamestrike]

Couldn't disagree more, Vader was a solider following the emperors wishes for a long time.

He followed the Emperor out of fear, constantly undermining him by taking a secret apprentice, trying to get Luke to join him and overthrow him, before eventually pegging him down a shaft himself.

Chaotic PCs can be members of groups, and agents for empires or organizations. They're just reckless, impulsive and unconventional in how they go about stuff.

Darth Vader didn't kill indiscriminately.

Wut?

 

[Flamestrike]

Vader strikes me as a character with strong tendencies in both directions on the Law-Chaos axis.

Vader has no code, other than the Sith code which is 'be chaotic evil'. 'Act according to your base emotions, betray your master and take an apprentice yourself.'

He has no respect for family, honor or tradition. He betrays (and/or destroys):

• His wife
• His best friend and master
• The Jedi order
• The Sith order
• The Republic
• The Empire
• The Emperor
• Luke
• Bobba Fett
• Lando Calrissian

He never keeps his word. He acts however his fear, anger and hatred dictate, subject to no laws other than the will of the Emperor, whom he only serves out of fear, constantly trying (and eventually succeeding) in betraying him.

Which is of course, in accordance with the Sith code.

As a Jedi, he was notoriously reckless, impulsive, unconventional, insubordinate and resisted tradition, order, discipline, and stability. He had a strong moral compass though. He was a poster boy for Chaotic (Good).

Nothing changed as a Sith, other than his moral code. An audience with him was as likely to have you killed as it was any other result. He was consumed by anger, hatred and fear.

 

[RuinousPowers]

One of the greatest Alignment screw ups is people claiming Vader to be 'Lawful'.

There is nothing Lawful about Vader. He has no code, does not respect family honor or tradition, is bound to no laws, and acts however his rage, hatred and anger dictate (subject only to the will of the Emperor, whom he only serves out of fear).

He openly betrays the Emperor to Luke in ESB (join me and we can overthrow the Emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son), betrays Lando (Im altering the deal, pray I dont alter it any further'), is party to Tarkin lying to Leia when Alderaan is blown up, finally betrays the Emperor himself in RoTJ, attempts to kill his own Son, threatens to turn his own daughter to the Dark Side (or presumably kill her as well), kills his best friend, murders several Imperial officers.

He's a team killing jerk, motivated by his own rage, hatred and fear. An audience with him is as likely to see you throttled to death, as it is for you to get any other kind of response from him.

It's just he's in service of a LE Empire. People conflate the two.

He was Chaotic as a Jedi (reckless, impulsive, headstrong, and acting in defiance of any code). But at least he was also a Good man.

As a Sith, he was just as reckless, headstrong and impulsive. It was just that he was also a morally repugnant monster.

When you read about devils they often mention treachery of their underlings, who would gladly usurp them. When did LE become unable to lie, rather than obeying the strict letter of their promises?

For reasons I haver already explained.


Cool, that's your opinion. I 100 percent disagree, and I hazard a guess most would as well.

You haven't explained your reasons, or answered my questions, just dismissed me. Other people in this thread have said he was LG too, so your hazarded guess would be wrong. Maybe reign in your snark or engage in honest communication next time?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

People debating alignments of various characters makes about as much sense than people furiously arguing over whether a particular nondescript ink blob is actually a butterfly or two rabbits...

There is no correct answer people, the whole framework is flawed!

 

[payn]

People debating alignments of various characters makes about as much sense than people furiously arguing over whether a particular nondescript ink blob is actually a butterfly or two rabbits...

There is no correct answer people, the whole framework is flawed!

I know, its kinda like people complaining about people debating alignment. No constructive advice given so it does nothing to stop it.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I know, its kinda like people complaining about people debating alignment. No constructive advice given so it does nothing to stop it.

I think "get rid of the alignment" is perfectly constructive! Doing so would instantly solve all "what alignment is X" debates.

 

[payn]

I think "get rid of the alignment" is perfectly constructive! Doing so would instantly solve all "what alignment is X" debates.

Some folks generally enjoy alignment, even debates on fictional characters. So no, get rid of it is not constructive to anyone but people who do not like it and want it removed.

 

[darkwillow]

He followed the Emperor out of fear, constantly undermining him by taking a secret apprentice, trying to get Luke to join him and overthrow him, before eventually pegging him down a shaft himself.

Chaotic PCs can be members of groups, and agents for empires or organizations. They're just reckless, impulsive and unconventional in how they go about stuff.



Wut?

fear? lol no.

he didn't even kill princes leia.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I think "get rid of the alignment" is perfectly constructive! Doing so would instantly solve all "what alignment is X" debates.

I think 'get rid of alignment' is the best answer too, but this thread literally starts with 'for those who find alignment useful', so maybe not time and place, bruh.

 

[le Redoutable]

and the Dark Vador said " no dizintegration " to the Wookie