Force Orb: Secondary attacks on a miss?

[eleran]

First off, you guys need to tone down the rhetoric. I just suggested that in MY game I would likely not allow it as it stinks of cheese. I did not threaten the sovereignty of anyone else to do differently.

Second of all. If you're going to allow them to target the ground and do "splash" damage to all around it, where does it stop?

What IS the DC of the ground?

Does the ground get cover if someone is in that square?

What happens on a miss? Do you pull out the old grenade chart and roll a d8 to determine where it goes? Or do you just handwave and say it does nothing?

It just seems to me that by allowing this you are taking a spell that is meant as an attack on an object or creature and turning it into a level 1 fireball.

 

[Wolfwood2]

It seems like the open 4E philosophy of 'just say yes' and 'try any whacky thing you like and we'll figure out a roll for it' is already being strangled in its crib. Just saying.

 

[eleran]

It seems like the open 4E philosophy of 'just say yes' and 'try any whacky thing you like and we'll figure out a roll for it' is already being strangled in its crib. Just saying.

The eternal cry of the rules abusive player.

 

[Khaim]

What IS the DC of the ground?

DC 5, like any other medium-sized inanimate object.

Does the ground get cover if someone is in that square?

No.

What happens on a miss? Do you pull out the old grenade chart and roll a d8 to determine where it goes? Or do you just handwave and say it does nothing?

What happens if you miss a person? That's what happens. In other words, nothing.

It just seems to me that by allowing this you are taking a spell that is meant as an attack on an object or creature and turning it into a level 1 fireball.

So what? The wizard already has a level 1 fireball. This might be slightly better, except it's an encounter power and thus much more valuable. Honestly, targeting it at the ground is a waste.

 

[herald]

If you read the description of the power, it is quite clear that the orb shatters upon impact. So if a player wanted to target the darkness, the spell would obviously either not work (since darkness is hardly an object) or just shoot through and fizzle out, or whatnot.

I would allow it as long as there was Mountain Dew in the next room.

 

[GoLu]

The eternal cry of the rules abusive player.

Creative players share that cry. As do early editions of D&D, to an extent. You're assuming the worst. It needn't be that bad.

 

[eleran]

It just seems exploitive to me. I think my players with PCs with a high reflex defense would be really put off if I had the NPC wizard throw force orb at their 5 Ref Def square virtually guaranteeing damage rather than pointing it at their 18 reflex def and having a 50/50 or worse shot at hitting them.

 

[Wepwawet]

If you miss the primary attack with forceorb, does the wizard still get to make his secondary attack?

No.
If you target some creature and miss, the orb will continue past it and explode upon reaching a wall (or disappear if it gets out of range). There's no reason to stop at the creature and explode.

But if you target the ground, you won't be hitting any creature directly so there's no primary attack. But it will definitely splash (I think the orb has intelligence 0 to decide wether to splash or not upon impact), hence, secondary attack.
It's a waste of an encounter power, but if you want, I don't see why not.

 

[eleran]

No.
If you target some creature and miss, the orb will continue past it and explode upon reaching a wall (or disappear if it gets out of range). There's no reason to stop at the creature and explode.

But if you target the ground, you won't be hitting any creature directly so there's no primary attack. But it will definitely splash (I think the orb has intelligence 0 to decide wether to splash or not upon impact), hence, secondary attack.
It's a waste of an encounter power, but if you want, I don't see why not.

Good point. I guess it really shouldn't come up since it is choosing to do the weaker of the 2 effects.

 

[Andur]

Khaim, you are kidding right, DC 5, you mean someone can miss the ground? I don't ever even try and I keep hitting the ground day after day. In fact I can't miss it if I try.

Trying to hit a specific spot on the ground might be DC5, but if you miss that spot you'd hit another spot...

The ground is NOT a Medium Inanimate Object, since there are no "hit locations" on creatures you can't have hit locations on objects either.

Targetting an AREA requires an AREA definer in the power description.