Forcing enemies to shift

[Kaffis]

Yeah, forced shifting lends a more environmentally and positionally tactical level to the gameplay. It's a form of defense that we didn't see used much in 3rd ed, since bull rushing was predominantly the realm of the super-strong and the ginormous.

It also has the happy side effect of being fairly "cinematic"-ally cool when worked creatively into powers, which is a direction I'm feeling in the new edition's initial glimpses.

I welcome my new shifting overlords, and welcome my upcoming opportunities to forcefully shift my enemies off of cliffs, into pools of burning acid, onto traps, etc. Or just "away from me"... =)

 

[Phasics]

One word

LAVA ! MWAHAHAHA

 

[Ahglock]

I think all the statements have been helpful. I originally asked if a halfling could shift(slide? shrug) a gargantuan dragon. class meant nothing to me, i was only concerned with size. seems there are some size provisions out there, others aren't. now having read the posts, i am concerned over terrain and now feel that the DM needs to be careful in not overdoing it b/c if so, movement becomes a weapon as much if not more than gear and magic. even going prone is not very fun if combat is anything like 3.x was tactically.

The overdoing of it at least in published adventures is one of my worries. Moving people around tactically is cool, combat becoming the move people into traps mini-game not cool.

 

[hong]

The overdoing of it at least in published adventures is one of my worries. Moving people around tactically is cool, combat becoming the move people into traps mini-game not cool.

The move-people-into-traps mini-game is a feature, not a bug. It will just take a bit of time before people unlearn the D&Dism of standing there and slogging away.

 

[Ahglock]

Meh, I prefer mythological heroes that can do impossible things like strangling two serpents while in the cradle, despite those serpents being sent to kill you by a goddess. This whole "magic uber alles" attitude is what makes non-spellcasters so boring in previous editions of the game.

I'm worried it wont be fantastic enough, and the fantastic stuff I wont like. I wnt really fantastic stuff and heh its you are a hero, its chi, adrenaline rush I don't care. But I want super fast movement so its just like a teleport for a short dash, I ant to be able to slash all foes within 2 squares. Heck lets face it I want Naruto wrapped in a D&D package.


Some of the shifting I guess is based on like feints, and that is kind of cool, but at the same time it doesn't work if the move is really lame. Yeah you might fall for a feint but if you are an archer you won't go, yeah lets move closer. When its only vs the NPCs its cool, I'm not emotionally attached to my orc archer, but the player might be attached to his Ranger. I'll have to see how it plays but forced movement may be irritating as heck if it happens too much, people don't like to lose control of there character every other round.

 

[Ahglock]

The move-people-into-traps mini-game is a feature, not a bug. It will just take a bit of time before people unlearn the D&Dism of standing there and slogging away.

Um no when the mini-game becomes the fight, its not a feature its a bug.

 

[hong]

Um no when the mini-game becomes the fight, its not a feature its a bug.

Yes, once you have spotted and corrected your hidden assumption, it's a feature, not a bug.

 

[Ahglock]

Yes, once you have spotted and corrected your hidden assumption, it's a feature, not a bug.

Oh, yeah let me go and correct my if then statement, that is a hidden assumption. I think the only assumption I should make is you aren't worth responding to any more.

 

[arscott]

Dwarf warlord (monster), can push 3 with it's melee attack without size limitations. It is vs AC weapon attack, so looks quite 'physical'. I have no doubts we will see martial melee push/pull attacks without size limitations in most martial classes.

It's important to note that the Dwarf Warlord is a monster, not a character.

I think it's safe to say that the game isn't really designed to support Huge or larger PCs. So if a power can be used against large or smaller characters, then it doesn't really merit size restrictions in a monster statblock.

Circumstances where large or medium creatures aren't affected are sure to be specifically called out. See the goblin picador as an example.



Re: Positioning Strike
It's a vs. will ability, so it looks like it's more about influencing the target to move, rather than physically shoving it. So no size restriction.


On moving huge creatures in general:
I have a suspicion that huge, gargantuan and colossal creatures are going to be elites and solo monsters. If this is the case, then it should be relatively difficult to slide them with attack powers--Their defenses are going to be higher than normal monsters of the same level.

 

[Li Shenron]

Does Dexterity count? Positioning Strike (rogue lvl 1 power) together with the Artful Dodger rogue option moves an opponent of undefined size a distance equal to the rogue's Charisma modifier in any direction.

source: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20080222a&pf=true

No, that seems more problem-free from believability point of view.

There is still a chance of abuse of course. Using Cha means it can be pushed around potentially too much, even faster than its own speed.