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Foundation Series (Apple+)


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Marc_C

Solitary Role Playing
The Witcher series was 'disjointed'. The flashbacks were difficult to understand (when they actually happened in the grand scheme of things) and muddled the narrative. Very amateur editing.

I'm not seeing that in Fondation. Granted it's a slow reveal but all the blocks are falling into place slowly. It's very coherent so far.
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
The Witcher series was 'disjointed'. The flashbacks were difficult to understand (when they actually happened in the grand scheme of things) and muddled the narrative. Very amateur editing.

I'm not seeing that in Fondation. Granted it's a slow reveal but all the blocks are falling into place slowly. It's very coherent so far.
We were debating if that huge flashback in ep 5 should have just been the start of the show or not.....like, which was a better way to tell the story.....and I'm still not sure if it really matters or not.
 

Marc_C

Solitary Role Playing
We were debating if that huge flashback in ep 5 should have just been the start of the show or not.....like, which was a better way to tell the story.....and I'm still not sure if it really matters or not.
It matters. I prefer things to be more mysterious. We get "linear easy watching" narratives all the time. It's good to have some change once in a while. I find its a fitting way of telling the story for Fondation.

Goddard said "A movie has a beginning, an middle and an end. But not necessarily in that order". Revolutionary for the 60s. Still applies today in my book. ;-)
 

Mallus

Legend
We were debating if that huge flashback in ep 5 should have just been the start of the show or not.....like, which was a better way to tell the story.....and I'm still not sure if it really matters or not.
The best part of the flashback on Synnax for me was the seemingly throwaway line "we melted the polar caps". Thought it was a great way to take what at first seemed like a very Asimovian "descent into unscientific barbarism" and turn it into contemporary climate sci-fi.

I feel that same way about the Anacreon invasion of Terminus. In the original they're just expansionist rubes who forgot how to use nuclear power. In the series the invasion is a direct consequence of the kind of terrible political decisions a declining empire makes.
 
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Mercurius

Legend
I don't think the flashbacks are what makes it feel a bit disjointed (to me). It is more the big jumps in time. Again, that's ok in principle, but by episode 4 I kind of felt like I was reading a sequel book. Again, I understand the nature of the source material, but it still felt a bit off. To me. IMO. IME. As of right now.

I still like the series. And more than Witcher, which I thought was just OK.
 

MarkB

Legend
I do like the little tricks of cloning, and cryogenics, and possibly time dilation that are being used to maintain some continuity of characters. But still, the sheer distances make their stories feel disconnected from each other, and yet they haven't quite managed to illustrate the sheer scale of the galactic empire that makes it top-heavy to the point of collapse.

Like, everyone seems to know what and where Synnax, and Anacreon, and Thespis are. This is an empire of tens of thousands of star systems, more than anyone could keep track of - a couple of minor worlds from the outer reaches, or one planet whose handful of population don't even believe in science or technology, should be so utterly obscure that almost anyone at the heart of the empire would have no clue what they were without looking it up in some massive database.
 

Mallus

Legend
I do like the little tricks of cloning, and cryogenics, and possibly time dilation that are being used to maintain some continuity of characters. But still, the sheer distances make their stories feel disconnected from each other, and yet they haven't quite managed to illustrate the sheer scale of the galactic empire that makes it top-heavy to the point of collapse.

Like, everyone seems to know what and where Synnax, and Anacreon, and Thespis are. This is an empire of tens of thousands of star systems, more than anyone could keep track of - a couple of minor worlds from the outer reaches, or one planet whose handful of population don't even believe in science or technology, should be so utterly obscure that almost anyone at the heart of the empire would have no clue what they were without looking it up in some massive database.
I actually think the series is doing a bit better in this regard than the first book. The show is at least attempting to illustrate the diversity of cultures, languages, counting systems, etc. in the Empire.

But the central issue of scale is unsolvable. It's central to the, ahem, foundational text. It's not like the size of the Empire made more sense in the original Asimov. You kinda have to roll with it.
 


Mercurius

Legend
I just finished episode 6 and am finding that I want to like the series more than I actually do. First of all, I find the acting and dialogue uneven, and just don't care all that much about any of the characters. Salvor Harden is so central, but one of the worst actors in the show (imo).

It is still entertaining: fun to look at, a nice use of color, and enough intriguing elements to keep watching. But at this point it feels more like a big budget SyFy channel show than it does the SF version of GoT, or commensurate with other "premier" TV series in the post-Sopranos era.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I just finished episode 6 and am finding that I want to like the series more than I actually do. First of all, I find the acting and dialogue uneven, and just don't care all that much about any of the characters. Salvor Harden is so central, but one of the worst actors in the show (imo).

It is still entertaining: fun to look at, a nice use of color, and enough intriguing elements to keep watching. But at this point it feels more like a big budget SyFy channel show than it does the SF version of GoT, or commensurate with other "premier" TV series in the post-Sopranos era.

Good way of phrasing it. It's ok/good in parts but it's not great. People don't seem to be dumping all over it it's just ok.
 





I'm guessing in the books the events happening were the main thing?
It is a long time since I read it, but as I remember it we are pretty much on the second of five or six short stories in the first book.

If we follow the book's arc, the series should end with Foundation starting to take over the Barbarian Worlds and carve out it's own mini-empire.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
It is a long time since I read it, but as I remember it we are pretty much on the second of five or six short stories in the first book.

If we follow the book's arc, the series should end with Foundation starting to take over the Barbarian Worlds and carve out it's own mini-empire.

There's a big lack of interesting characters I find. No one's aggravating at least.

Politics on Trantor are reasonably interesting. I suspect the robot lady will betray Empire and the young "nice" clone is gonna get a sticky ending.

Still it's good enough to watch each week. It's not like there's much else on atm Sci Fi related though.

Hell watching White Collar on Disney+ atm.
 

John R Davis

Adventurer
Seen the first two episodes, and found it gorgeous in scope and not too hard to follow. I haven't read the books.
What has spoiled it was seeing a trailer for it in the cinema this week. On the big screen it looked absolutely amazing ( and though I have a big screen 4k TV, it now looks somewhat diminished!!)
 

There's a big lack of interesting characters I find.
Fault of the book, which didn't really bother with such trivialities as "characterisation". To the extent that gender-swapping characters makes no difference whatsoever.

I find it's common in serious science fiction of that period - Arthur C. Clarke didn't really do interesting characters either (Hal is the most interesting character he ever came up with).

Have been watching Home Before Dark on Apple+ - which is Stranger Things with the supernatural element removed, and Only Murders in the Building on Disney+
 
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Zardnaar

Legend
Fault of the book, which didn't really bother with such trivialities as "characterisation". To the extent that gender-swapping characters makes no difference whatsoever.

I find it's common in serious science fiction of that period - Arthur C. Clarke didn't really do interesting characters either.

Have been watching Home Before Dark on Apple+ - which is Stranger Things with the supernatural element removed, and Only Murders in the Building on Disney+

Yeah I don't really enjoy reading Sci Fi because a lot of it is bleah.

I realized that the show runners would have to develop the characters.
 

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