[FR] Everyone take a deep breath...

[BlackMoria]

So, it doesn't actually specify that the Realms is jumping ahead by a century?

That is speculation based on the sample chapter from The Orc King book by Salvatore that is coming out. The chapter implies that it is 100 years since the Spellplague struck.

The spellplague hits in 1385 DR.

Eric Boyd has confirmed at there will be a jump in the time line but didn't state how much a jump.

Likely candidates are a 10 year jump to 1385 DR or the 100 year jump.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

What's happening to FR is regrettable, but thats what happens when you let outside sources into the setting, novels should never have become canon. In the beginning it seemed that novels were being used to help flesh out changes in the timeline (Avatar trilogy) then more and more writers began basing stories on the Realms and they may or may not have concidered the impact of their storylines on the Realms. Authors some times write with a larger brush in regards to events in a certain setting and if you have many writers affecting that setting it can get out of hand. The group running a campaign in the Realms can have weeks of play disrupted because the latest novel killed or changed someone or something the DM had set up to be the grand finale.
Sorry if I rambled on, but FR is my favorite CS and I'm concerned.

Bel

I'm not trying to be rude, but if the writers don't add anything or change anything when the write the story, whats the point of the book? I mean if the books didn't change the assumptions about the world, you would have a whole bunch of books going in circles right? If you have a setting based on a book line, the setting doesn't change, only the assumptions about the world right, until a new addition at least?

If nothing happens in the FR books, people will be upset because it will get stale. If FR does change, people will be upset because it changes in a way they would not have changed it, and the setting moves on without them, or with them regrettably trudging along like a consensus objector.

 

[Mighty Veil]

I say "go for it!" with the changes. I'm sure I won't like them all. If orcs become a regular race thanks to Orc King. That's the biggest worry I have.

2e changes I didn't like. But kept playing FR. 3e's changes were hit and miss. Some I really didn't like (no point going into details when not asked); some nations, like Cormyr, I no longer had any interest in. But some changes (Bane and Amn) I did like. 3.5's changes killed FR for me. The direction it was put into and the books lost me.

So I don't mind the changes. Maybe I'll find myself Realm'ing it up again?

 

[GSHamster]

I'm not trying to be rude, but if the writers don't add anything or change anything when the write the story, whats the point of the book? I mean if the books didn't change the assumptions about the world, you would have a whole bunch of books going in circles right?

No, because then the book becomes more about the characters in the book and how they change and what happens to them, rather than what happens to the world.

Fantasy novels don't have to have world-changing (or even nation-changing) events to be enjoyable.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'm not trying to be rude, but if the writers don't add anything or change anything when the write the story, whats the point of the book?

I want uset his opportunity to repeat that change isn't all-or-nothing. Your average Realms fan likes how the Realms aren't like some bad TV series where after the episode, everything is exactly as it was at the beginning. We like change.

We just don't like change to be so complete, so trastic, that it seems that they took two different settings and morphed the former into the latter.

Sure, every now and then a god will bite it, but if dozens of gods are killed or changed in one fell stroke, it's just too much.

Sure, sometimes, some things change about a setting. Maybe the elves stop their Retreat, or the decline in dwarven population is stopped by the thunder blessing. But if suddenly, several big things that affect the whole multiverse are changed (like the Weave suddenly disappearing), it's just too much.

I mean if the books didn't change the assumptions about the world, you would have a whole bunch of books going in circles right? If you have a setting based on a book line, the setting doesn't change, only the assumptions about the world right, until a new addition at least?

Some assumptions about the world changing is okay. The world itself changing into a completely different world isn't. It's like a book line that takes place in several different settings.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I see, its not that things are changing thats the issue, but that its too much change in too short amount of time?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I see, its not that things are changing thats the issue, but that its too much change in too short amount of time?

Yes, and also too much change period. And that a lot of changes seem to be introduced just to hammer the shape of 4e's core assumptions into the Realms, destroying the Realms' identity - all the things that set the Realms apart from GreyHawk and similar settings seem to disappear.

I wouldn't have said anything if, say, the civil war in Sembia tore apart the whole land. Or when a handful of gods died. Or when, say, the Dark Seldarine (the drow pantheon) got a reshuffle (Selvetarm and Kiaransalee, both gone, Vhaeraun and Eilistraee gaining more power as more drow come to the surface and start the first wary alliances with the other elven races and nations).

But they did all that (and, in some cases did more extreme things) and a lot of other stuff to boot. And right now, we only know the tip of the iceberg. Seeing the trend of the things we do know, it strongly implies that a lot of things will change into what core 4e would do.

 

[wingsandsword]

As some have said, the problem isn't that there is change, Realms fans do expect the timeline to march on and for the world to have some changes. . .

The problem is when the changes are so big that the infringe on what makes the Forgotten Realms feel like the Realms.

Killing off Mystra, destroying the weave, completely reordering the planes/multiverse, driving most wizards insane, Helm being slain and causing major shifts in alliances/loyalties amongst the pantheon in response. . .and it being implied these are long-term changes for at least the next century, that's too much.

It seems extremely un-Faerunian to permanently kill off Mystra. She has died twice before in the timeline, once as Mystril when killed by Karsus, the second time when slain in the Time of Troubles. Both times she reincarnated, the second time her mantle of divinity was entrusted to a mortal who was elevated to divine status. It was made clear that the omnipotent Overdeity of the Realms sees Mystra as a key part of the Realms, and while the current Mystra can die, Mystra in some form will continue. This whole "spellplague" throws out continuity and what was already established that an omnipotent overpower watches over the deities and lets them have their little squabbles but steps in when their wars threaten to bring cataclysm to the world.

Most of the changes in the 10 year jump in the timeline aren't that bad, things that could be expected, some wars, some alliances, a few minor deities dying in wars amongst themselves, it's the last two years in that timeline, especially the very last one, that has fans hackles raised.

It seems like WotC is going out of their way to smash the Forgotten Realms with a sledgehammer and put the remaining pieces together to fit 4e design philosophies such as "points of light". As Kae'Yoss said, the things that made Forgotten Realms distinct from other settings such as Greyhawk get lost in such a shuffle.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Some assumptions about the world changing is okay. The world itself changing into a completely different world isn't. It's like a book line that takes place in several different settings.

And this is why I don't run FR games. There is too much material out that fans of the setting declare as too important to be 'wrong'.

Personally I prefer a world that moves and changes.. sometimes drastically. I like the books where major characters are killed off mid-plot instead of being immune to death. Apparently massive changes are ahead for the published FR games.. which leaves three basic choices after the release of 4th edition:

replay 3e FR setting with 3e rules
replay 3e FR setting with 4e rules
explore the new 4e FR setting

In five or so years, the Realms will get smashed with a hammer again and some new voices will be on this board vehemetly accusing WoTC of being "extremely un-Faerunian" for changing away from the 'points of light' setting concept...

IMHO, change is good. My favorite setting.. Eberron, is also moving forward on the timeline and having some serious impact in the presumed cultures. Fortunately for me, it looks alot more like my home game anyway

YMMV and all them other acronyms used to deflect personal attacks for voicing a personal opinion...

 

[Wormwood]

And this is why I don't run FR games. There is too much material out that fans of the setting declare as too important to be 'wrong'. \

Bingo.

I used to LOVE my old 1e Grey Box FR campaign.

But once the 'canon' set in? Once a player told me that I was doing it "wrong"?

Later, Realms.