FR Podcast is up

[small pumpkin man]

Would you call the Spellplague natural evolution? I don't. What we are seeing in 4E FR is a conscious design direction to break down the world to its basic elements, so that it can be rebuilt to fit a new model and a new customer base. Therefore, I think it's change for change's sake.

"Change for changes sake" means changing things merely so they are new and shiny without caring if the new is better than the old. Change for no reason other than to change. The Spellplague is there for a very specific reason (the new magic system), so it's very obviously not "Change for changes sake".

 

[DandD]

So the designers saying "I think we're going to retcon this and that" is not, in fact, retconning? Amazing. And if the "in-story" explanation given to all the changes is going to be "well, that's what happened during the 100 years of Chaos -- and it was all caused by the Spellplague", I can assure you that my cat could come up with a better explanation.

I could come up with an even better explanation. The Allmighty God Ao said, and the world of Abeir-Toril became as he decided, on a whim.

And you know what? It's perfectly logical, because the Uber-Deity Ao has the power to do that. But it lacks apocalyptic stuff, as you mentioned it, so spellplague it is, and it has the benefit to kill some more deities.

And tell me how is the "Armageddon-like" magical world-wide catastrophe "evolution" in any way? I would call it a "cheap trick that we're using 'cuz we don't want to spend too much time pondering over individual changes"-type of tactic.

If it works for the DC-Universe with its bajillions of superheroes, like Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman and Flash and Green Arrow and Zatanna and Dove and Hawk and and and (and comic book fans are as least as nit-picky as roleplayers, in fact, most roleplayers are comic book fans), it also will work and sell well for the Forgotten Realms with its Seven Sisters and Blackstaff and Szasz Tam and Elminster and Drizzt and Manshoon and so on...

Let me mention another inconsistency I've spotted: the Spellplague apparently is not "powerful" enough to break High/Epic Magic wards (i.e. Mythals and Mythal-like magics), *but* it's able to shuffle around the planes (destroying the planes ruled by demipowers, lesser powers and intermediate powers -- not to mention "tossing" Abyss to the bottom of the Elemental Chaos). Wow, I guess those gods should have invested in Elven High Magic instead of Salient Divine Abilities...

Yeah, Elven Magic has always been better than any other kind of magic in D&D, which is why we had to endure all that elven-crap, with Blue Elves, Dark Elves, Grey Elves, Wood Elves, Wild Elves, Green Elves, Sky Elves, Sea Elves, Mere Elves, Gold Elves, Moon Elves, Silver Elves, High Elves, and all that other elfi-stuff, and that's why gods loose to D&D-elves. Elves in D&D have more "fanbois" than those whacky Forgotten Realms-gods could ever have...

 

[Khairn]

Just because you don't like it or won't accept the reasons for change as being valid doesn't mean it's "change for change's sake."

The reason for many of the changes appears to be the system changed, therefore the designers had to figure out how to force that change into the Realms while attempting to work within FR's history. Or at least that is what the designers blogs said.

<shrug>

At the end of the day we are all just speculating on the smallest fraction of the material that has been released. Who knows what we'll end up thinking once we actually see the finished product.

 

[Teemu]

Those "pseudo-real RW cultures" were not Ed's idea. Nor does his "Home Realms" have them. They were added to FR by various TSR designers.

So it's a good thing they're removing Unther, Mulhorand, and Chessenta? I think it's brilliant.

Would you call the Spellplague natural evolution? I don't. What we are seeing in 4E FR is a conscious design direction to break down the world to its basic elements, so that it can be rebuilt to fit a new model and a new customer base. Therefore, I think it's change for change's sake.

I agree. I also think it's pretty smart.

To me the "spirit" or the "feel" of the Realms is that it feels like a living, thriving world filled with interesting people (NPCs) who all have their own stories -- whether they be "movers and shakers", humble farmers, greedy merchants, other adventurers, black-hearted villains, The Chosen of Mystra, and so on. It is a setting that has unknown lands and villains, ancient secrets and hidden threats, but also "homely" villages and familiar faces. To me, the Realms are defined by its detailed history, people and lands, that all offer endless possibilities to tell and experience stories. In 4E, most of those people are gone and the world shattered almost beyond recognition. It will take another twenty years to get the same level of detail I have now, so why bother, if it is important to me and my players?

Wait, Elminster's gone? The farmers are gone? Merchants? Ancient secrets and hidden threats?

 

[Imban]

Wait, Elminster's gone?

Elminster's been rendered incapable of using magic on pain of being possessed by spirits instantly, and is thus just a useless old man. So... yes.

 

[marune]

Elminster's been rendered incapable of using magic on pain of being possessed by spirits instantly, and is thus just a useless old man. So... yes.

Ok.. Elminster fearing to use his magic is useless...

 

[Teemu]

Elminster doesn't exist in the 4e Realms? Are you sure about that?

He does exist. It just happens that he's a much more useful plot tool than what he's ever been before. An old man on the verge of insanity, once one of the most poweful spellcasters the world knew but now afraid to call upon his strength in fear of losing control of what's left of his identity. Elminster's never been this cool before.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Elminster doesn't exist in the 4e Realms? Are you sure about that?

He does exist. It just happens that he's a much more useful plot tool than what he's ever been before. An old man on the verge of insanity, once one of the most poweful spellcasters the world knew but now afraid to call upon his strength in fear of losing control of what's left of his identity. Elminster's never been this cool before.

I agree. I love the new Elminster. He's got the knowledge of history from being alive so long. He's wise, he USED to be powerful. He has lots of contacts and friends. However, he can't save the world anymore. He can only use his knowledge to help other people save it.

 

[Teemu]

I agree. I love the new Elminster. He's got the knowledge of history from being alive so long. He's wise, he USED to be powerful. He has lots of contacts and friends. However, he can't save the world anymore. He can only use his knowledge to help other people save it.

Well, he couldn't save the world before either - he was always planes hopping or busy with other threats. You know, despite the entire world being in danger.

 

[jensun]

Those "pseudo-real RW cultures" were not Ed's idea. Nor does his "Home Realms" have them. They were added to FR by various TSR designers.

I never suggested that they were. Even if you look at Ed's core areas and his novels there is nothing in them that even suggests a Rennaissance feel outside of perhaps Waterdeep.

Cormyr - more Arthurian than anything else
Shadowdale - not even close
The North - PoL, small cities surrounded by wilderness

You could make an argument for Silvermoon being rennaissance but it feels far more high fantasy than anything else in everything I've seen published for it.