FR Podcast is up

[Mirtek]

Where's the contradiction? Rich Baker states unequivocally that they "don't have clerics or worshippers". They're figures within the religion, but that doesn't mean they're worshipped. The same is true of numerous realworld religions, in which you have important figures of the faith, but they're not worshipped.

Well, there are quite a few arguments whether christianity isn't actually polytheism (given all the orders "worshipping" a certain saint as patron even if they pay him/her homage as servant of god)

When a designer flat out states "they're not worshipped", they're not being worshipped ought to be fairly self evident.

Which still makes it illogical. In the FR people even worship lifeless spheres of annihilation or minor demonlords not even close to the league of Orcus & Co.

And none worship powerfull exarchs?

 

[Green Knight]

Not in the 4E Realms, they don't.

 

[Mirtek]

Not in the 4E Realms, they don't.

Rich also only says "Here's how I see it working", which doesn't mean that this is 100% the way the new FRCS and further FR adventures/supplements will see it. I would be suprised if we won't see orders dedicated to certain exarchs as part of the bigger church of the deity the exarch is serving

Like Driz'zt introduced himself as "servant of Gwaern Windstroem ranger champion of Mielikki"

 

[Green Knight]

Well, feel free to disbelieve if you like. But all things considered, don't be surprised when the 4E Realms comes out and it states that Demigods don't have worshippers or Clerics.

Incidentally...

 

[Mirtek]

Well, feel free to disbelieve if you like. But all things considered, don't be surprised when the 4E Realms comes out and it states that Demigods don't have worshippers or Clerics.

As long as the FR have people worshipping clearly mortal things like [undead] dragons it's just absurd that no-one would worship an exarch.

Worshipping someone and having your powers granted by someone has tradition in D&D (almost all hero deities worked this way and more often than not their worshippers knew where their spells were coming from, e.g. like followers of Murlynd know that their deity is a servant-deity of Heironeus and he is granting him their spells when they pray to Murlynd)

In RL the religious devout medieval knights recognized god as the only god and still founded orders of Saint-John, of Saint-Lazarus, of Saint-Thomas, ....

 

[Green Knight]

In RL the religious devout medieval knights recognized god as the only god and still founded orders of Saint-John, of Saint-Lazarus, of Saint-Thomas, ....

They didn't worship the Saints, though. And God most certainly was never secondary to them.

As long as the FR have people worshipping clearly mortal things like [undead] dragons it's just absurd that no-one would worship an exarch.

Hey, don't argue with me. I don't like it, either. I'm just reporting what the situation is.

 

[Mirtek]

They didn't worship the Saints, though.

Which is controversial (aka "Christianity: is it polytheism in denial?" -> don't want to take any side in this debate, just point out that it exists)

I guess it depends how you define "worshipping", but to me a prayer like "Lady Red Knight be with us and plead our case to your liege Tempus, Lord of Battles" would be worshipping the Red Knight even if the prayer is ultimately to address Tempus

 

[Mighty Veil]

It's a good thing podcast isn't phone in show. Nothing but gnome questions from the people who like them.

I'm not sure about the new Thay. I do like the nation of wizards. Don't see why a nation of arcane users could not have been done. A nation of the undead sounds neat on paper but in practice I'm not sold yet. The idea of Red Wizards now a group without a home I like the sound of.

I'm really hoping the Zents won't get nerfed. That's the one group/place I don't want to be reset. I want my Zhent Republic.

I still say Saurials will be ret-con to be from the the Dragonborn lands. I hope Myrukul will have become more than a crown in a hundred years too.

 

[PeterWeller]

Here's Rich Baker's post on why they're not mentioning Ao (Not mentioning isn't the same as getting rid of him. He's still around, but just not being talked about).

An important tidibit from that very post about the FR gods:

And, before anyone gets on me--most of our upcoming pantheon development leaves the original FR deities in place.

Dying in droves, eh?

Maybe it's because the "spirit" and "feel" of the Realms is no longer the same?

Can you articulate what the "spirit" and "feel" are in your opinion? In my opinion, the "spirit" and "feel" of the Realms is its nature as a big old grab bag of fantasy tropes where you can find a place for anything in D&D. That certainly hasn't changed, even though the Goddess of Magic is dead and Chessenta is no more.

EDIT: Oh, another thing: They are not ret-conning the FR cosmology! They have already said that they are providing an in-story explanation for why the cosmology changes. If it is explained with a story that is a new part of continuity, it isn't retroactive continuity. You can't just go around using the term "ret-con" for every change you don't like.

 

[DandD]

Of course, those are your subjective opinion -- not facts (please remember to use phrases like "in my opinion" or "I think" etc.).

I refuse. I mean, seriously, this are the internets, of course everything is opinion or thinking about. Fortunately for me, my opinions happen to coincide with the facts...

As for ToT, gods didn't die "in the dozens"

I really don't know how many died, as there are still some hundred million gods for anything in the Forgotten Realms. I know that Bane got better, and that Baal-dude died, thanks to the Baldur's Gate-games, and appearently that Mystra-chick, and some cave-god that got eaten by that Shar-hussy, and the former evil death god, and some more who got beaten to a bloody pulp by that Cyric-guy with a god-slaying sword, who got around and killed some more lesser gods and so. And there were also some elven gods who killed some dwarven gods, if that Marvel Comic about the lame Forgotten Realms is true, and some adventurers went around and killed some more gods, and other non-human gods killed or got killed other non-human gods, and so on...

(assassins died by the thousands -- you got that right), and I can't recall any new nations arising. Floating mountains? Isn't that one of those 4E "mote" things? If you are referring to the enclaves of Netheril, that was one man's version of an ancient "High Magic" kingdom (sloppily designed and *not* how Ed envisioned Netheril to be).

So what? It was 3rd edition already. And as others have pointed out, what that Ed-dude says is moot. At best, he's now a co-designers for the Forgotten Realms, since the day he sold his intellectual property to other guys.

Continuity and consistency are important to any setting -- If I did the 4E Eberron CG and erased/modified some of the "iconic" stuff there (such as that Mournlands were never formed and Sharn fell last year and is now a ruined city or the Rakhasas are actually Dragonborn Exarchs), don't you think I would be lynched by the Eberron hard-core fans?

Meh, Eberron only makes sense for D&D 3rd edition, as it's the only campaign setting where they intelligently applied most of the magic rules to a world, unlike the crudely stitched Forgotten Realms. The Forgotten Realms just are more the effort to be redone than Eberron, because people played Baldur's Gate and perhaps also Icewind Dale enough to become D&D-pen-and-paper-players. All that Eberron has to show is the lame-o-game D&D Online. It's all about name-recognition and brands.

Evolution is one thing, change for change's sake another, right?

That's why they said that 100 years pass, so people like you should feel happy, because it "evolved" to the new face it gets (hur hur hur hur ). That spellplague stupidness is as idiotic as the Times of Troubles, and it changes the setting to accomodate the rules better. And it's so that the new demographic still see, hey, that's the world where that Baldur's Gate-city is located, that's cool, I can now play in that world too with my ranger-barbarian who's got a miniature giant pet hamster from space, and all that other whacky shenanigans.