FR to look like a Roger Dean painting

Athenon

First Post
Right on the Money!

Ruin Explorer is right on the money. I would separate some complaints about the new Realms before proceeding. 1) I love the tone of the new rules 2) I have no problem with advancing the timeline. But...

Why do we need to radically alter the feel and very look of the world? I mean, the old Realms as Darrin and others have pointed out was/is beautiful. Exactly what do we accomplish by placing earthmotes and Yes album covers everywhere? How does this enhance my campaign? It seems it will make it more difficult for me to make my players suspend disbelief. I understand the arguments for the new Realms eliminating the barrier to entry for new players and designers without the time to read. I get the need to explain the change in magic by cataclysm, but how does alien landscape (in place of beautiful, pristine, FR4/Savage Frontier-like territory) enhance my game?

Ruin Explorer said:
Well, here's the thing, and maybe this makes me a nerd and/or proves I was barely born in the 1970s, let alone old enough to think that sort of band was cool. To me, yeah, the FR was, as the quoted person implies "The Renaissence with Magic in quasi-Euro-Middle-Asia", and you know what? That's how I liked it! I liked the fact that the FR was slightly down to Earth, that it was just whoooo-whaaaaa and bong hits.

Whereas the 4E FR seems to be all about the bong hits and LSD and trippy "visions of another weeeeeeeerld maaaaaaaan", which I admit IS kind of awesome, but it's not he kind of setting I'm interested in running.

I mean, compare to books and stuff maybe. I want to run something that's like Locke Lamora with more monsters and magic (or Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser with more non-humans, or something). My players like their vague quasi-real world. What I don't want to run is a trippy-hippy world full of floating islands, inexplicable twisted giant columns of stone, flying fortresses, and so on. Some of that is cool, but lots? Everywhere? It's just so far from our reality that it starts to lose the fun, for us.

I'm reminded of The Colour of Magic, when Rincewind and that barbarian type are dealing with the Pern rip-off, and how the Pern rip-off's dragons and floating castle can only exist within an extremely strong magical field - it seems like all of 4E FR takes place inside that field, and it's... bleh... not my style.

Still, 4E as a whole? No reason I can't use that for a less "Woooo floating islands" setting.
 
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Arnwyn

First Post
The art is interesting for a brand new setting, I guess... at least, for those who like that kind of thing (weird phallic rocks and pastel islands).

Weird that they've used the same name as an older setting, though.
 





Coldspell

First Post
prog rock D&D, here we come! :D

I agree that it ain't FR, but it sounds refreshing to me..

Manual_of_the_Planes.jpg
 
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Elder-Basilisk

First Post
I didn't like that much either at the time, but considering it from another angle, if they could file off the post-modern guilt and obligatory social commentary along with Cortez's name, the conquest of the new world would be one heck of a D&D campaign.

Land with a small group of adventurers in the middle of a points of light setting, negotiate with the various tribes, kill your enemies using a mix of swords and (what is at least initially interpreted as) magic, convert them to your religion, and set up an empire that will endure for generations after you've gone? What could be more D&D than that? You can even have hidden jungle temples (fill them with snake-men if you want) and ruined jungle temples and you might have to scale the side of a volcano to gather the reagents to craft your magic items.

In short, the problem with the file off Cortez's name was that the authors during the 1e/2e transition decided to cast the characters and the PCs in the role of conscienscious 20th century observers of someone else's conquest of the new world instead of growing a pair and letting the PCs actually play Cortez.

Mourn said:
And I'm glad they got away from the horrible "File off Cortez's name and slap it in the Realms" crap that permeated the previous editions of the game. It shows an utterly lack of creativity and it was the same crap a lot of other RPGs were doing (Warhammer, as a perfect example). It's good they're actually trying something distinct, instead of the same ol' lukewarm "It's Europe... but not... <goofy mystery music>" setting.
 

Hussar

Legend
Whisperfoot said:
For me, it's this:

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Oh god. Not more static Elmore crap. I had enough of this in the 80's. Whoo hoo, look at me! I'm a guy on a pony. Yay, this screams fantasy. Grrrr. I'm a toughie. Gimme a break.

For me, Franzetta speaks much more to Greyhawk than to FR. FR has always been, IMO, a high fantasy setting. Epic story lines, huge backdrops, that sort of thing. Grim and gritty it's never been. So, if it's a high fantasy setting, why not actually use high fantasy art? Why shy away from what it really is? It's not Middle Earth with the serial numbers filed off. It's Myth Dranor and Evermeet and whatnot. It's about bloody time it starts to look it too.
 

Rabelais

First Post
Ruin Explorer said:
Oh dear. I guess this confirms that, despite my plaintive bleatings to the contrary, I am now officially "out" of the 4E FR. Album covers of terrible '70s bands are precisely what I feared the new FR was like, and apparently my fears were spot-on with laser-like precision. Damn I'm good at cynicism/paranoia. I should probably ditch optimism altogether, eh?


Wow... hate on FR as much as you want, but don't Dis my prog rock heroes!!! ;)

Seriously though, Yes was one of the greats in the 70s.
 

Rain

First Post
Overall i like what i have heard about 4e, the art is the exception, 3.0-3.5 in terms of artwork and layout was perfect but 4e just has this old look about it, like everyone just grabbed a bunch of 1st edition D&D books and redrew everything in it. I will have to wait and see how this new FR direction is, but pointing people towards bad 70's album covers just plays in to my overall worry about 4e art direction
 

Athenon

First Post
Rabelais said:
Wow... hate on FR as much as you want, but don't Dis my prog rock heroes!!! ;)

Seriously though, Yes was one of the greats in the 70s.

Great man. I'm glad you like Prog-Rock. That has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 

Cabled

First Post
Ruin Explorer said:
Oh dear. I guess this confirms that, despite my plaintive bleatings to the contrary, I am now officially "out" of the 4E FR. Album covers of terrible '70s bands are precisely what I feared the new FR was like, and apparently my fears were spot-on with laser-like precision. Damn I'm good at cynicism/paranoia. I should probably ditch optimism altogether, eh?

Yeah, it's probably for the best, given your description of your situation.
 

Darrin Drader

Explorer
Hussar said:
Oh god. Not more static Elmore crap. I had enough of this in the 80's. Whoo hoo, look at me! I'm a guy on a pony. Yay, this screams fantasy. Grrrr. I'm a toughie. Gimme a break.

I actually prefer "static Elmore crap" to 90% of what's found its way into D&D books since the launch of 3rd edition. I feel that Elmore does a much better job at capturing the essence of character than many of the attempts since he more or less left D&D. Everyone has their own taste. Mine is Elmore and Easley.

For me, Franzetta speaks much more to Greyhawk than to FR. FR has always been, IMO, a high fantasy setting. Epic story lines, huge backdrops, that sort of thing. Grim and gritty it's never been.

I would agree with you if not for the Drizzt novels, which as much as people love to mock them, happen to be what is most associated with the Forgotten Realms by the casual (read non-gamer) reader. The Icewind Dale is all about harsh landscapes, grim characters, and gritty realism. Drizzt sneaking into the orc army camp and slitting their throats as they sleep is grim and gritty. Wulfgar tortured at the hands of Errtu for years and then returning the FR, only to become a drunk and leave everyone he cares about is grim and gritty. There are a ton more examples, but the point is that even though a lot of FR has gotten away from grim and gritty, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist in the setting.

So, if it's a high fantasy setting, why not actually use high fantasy art? Why shy away from what it really is? It's not Middle Earth with the serial numbers filed off. It's Myth Dranor and Evermeet and whatnot. It's about bloody time it starts to look it too.

Hey, I don't care if they raise Salvador Dali and have him do the art, or better yet Pablo Picasso. It's all good. It just isn't the style I always associated with the setting. But then neither were the 3rd edition FR products. I still bought them and enjoyed them.
 


Edena_of_Neith

First Post
hong said:
Gnomish Industrial Revolution, a series of incredibly long play-by-post/alt.history threads where the gnomes blow up the Realms.

The gnomes did not blow up the Realms. The Elves of Evermeet tried (and were foiled by the Psionic League.)
But it's hard to blame the elves when Forrester and his army of humanoids were about to conquer (and eat) all the elves, the Technomancy was secretly on Forrester's side, the Faerie and druids and Magocracy were being held in bay by the Technomancy (and everyone was afraid of the Illithid Empire, which consumed more of their time and energy.)
Perhaps help should have come from Zakhara, but it was in still divided about what to do about the situation (and, divided period, really.) Kara-Tur could have done something, but they were still getting their act together and becoming the Union of Toril at that time.
So the elves were SOL, and when Evermeet fell they blew it up.

Yes, Forrester's legions of orcs and other humanoids had advanced firearms and cannon and ironclads and other things of this sort. And for that, you can half blame Lantan and the Gnomes, and half on the countries that took Lantan's technology, made it their own, and sold it to Forrester (and don't forget to give credit to Forrester's secret Kobold Cities, where massive manufacturing and research went on, and ultimately a great part of his war machine was developed.)

The IRs altered the FR setting greatly. Yes they did.
And heh, these new pictures *do* remind me of the IRs. Because the pictures evoke a sense of the Way Out, the Exotic, the Fantastic. And the IRs had all of those (plus Comedy and large doses of the Absurd, but that was deliberate.)
 

Callikah

First Post
i like that manual of the planes pic, if they used that i'd buy 2 or 3 just for the cover :)

as for the new reference pics i kinda like the look, as for those who hate em well they did say that the north and waterdeep region werent altered much so drizzt and elminsters areas wont be ruined by the new stuff.
 


The Grumpy Celt

Banned
Banned
Whisperfoot said:
One thing I'm not pleased about is the fate of Mulhorand, but that has nothing to do with the art.

Not directly, but the thought process that led to one also led to the other on part on the WotC staff and the decisions they made.
 

The Ubbergeek

First Post
And yet, as I said about another topic, with changes come things that we may not like. And yet, uneascapable, or even needed then also. Move on to see the rest of them and don't focus only on the bad bits. Or move on at all.
 

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