[FR] Waterdeep in Ashes

[Chronosome]

I'm pretty sure this isn't part of the main Realms continuity, but modern Waterdeep was "taken" once before...by Effluvium (powerful sleep gas), in the rare Knight of the Living Dead "choose your own adventure" module.

Trivia, I know.

 

[Mystery Man]

Well, to be honest I dislike Waterdeep and it's überNPCs quite a bit. Everytime the PCs have a problem with something it's like 'we cannot fail, Waterdeep will save the day' or 'there's no way Waterdeep would allow that' or 'we need a True Res, let's go to Waterdeep'. For me as a DM it's always like the heroes are nothing but startups, no matter how high level or powerful they are. There's always someone that can stop by to undo the mess the players left behind. There's no way the PCs have to live with the consequences of their actions, they can always run home to mommy if something goes wrong.

You're doing the right thing, and you could milk this cow for quite some time ). I would play the angle of other nations reluctant to get involved because Waterdeep should be able to handle it own, and they don't want to sacrfice too many of their recources in case the Zhents have their eye on them. Self preservation being what it is.

The Uber NPC's? They're dealing with a much bigger problem down south in Amn or Edited for the sake of Eric's Grandmother.

Edit: Please refrain from colorful bawdy descriptions on the ENworld boards. If you are unfamiliar with the Eric's Grandmother rule, please read the FAQ. -Eridanis

 

[Marimmar]

Umm... An army from Waterdeep was led into the Anauroch? That's 400 miles away. What were they doing there in the first place? Why go fight someone who hasn't even managed to get through the Silver Marches?

As for the story, the alliance of the north was made aware of zhentish activity based in Anauroch. The Zhents didn't send an army all the way from Zhentil Keep, they raised one from the Goblin Marches and tribes living in or around the big desert. Since the trade routes where under attack, it was decided that an army should be assembled from the various nations with the sole purpose of destroying the zhentish army. The PCs were part of the effort but arrived too late at Waterdeep to be put into the main force, thus they had to go with the reserve. When they arrived at the desert, the main army had already been led into a trap and got wiped out.

Again we're having a case of 'An army from Waterdeep couldn't possibly be defeated!?' Well it can, if crusaders can lose to Saladin, Waterdhavians can lose to Zhents. The particulars need not be described since no PC ever saw it happening.

~Marimmar

(edit: typo)

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

It really depends on what you want to do.
As many others have said, Waterdeep is a really built-up defended town. The conventional heroics of war would not happen unless the threat was something truly epic (in the normal and rule-mechanics sense of the word) and thus well out of the reach of the average player character to stop.

Far Realm invasion is a good one. Tough monsters, lots of insanity/fear things (great for dealign with most non-high level people) and very magical creatures. An invasion by infernal forces could also pull it off (have the reason they can manifest explained by the actions of some obscure party of adventurers who misworded a wish or something).

But it is more interesting (if less cinematic) to play out the other way cities can fall. There is more than one way to take a city, and most do not involve actually bringing an army in. Plague, disease, corruption of officials, guild wars, perverting a powerful hero or hero group would all be effective, if somewhat bureaucratic ways of bringnig Waterdeep under Zhentarim control. Also, play up the "it can't happen here" false security people get in places like Waterdeep. An enforced trade blockade by both Thay and the Zhentarim would disrupt Waterdeep to the point where the guilds would force the heroes to give up - simply because the "right thing to do" is too disruptive to trade, the consumption of luxuries, etc.

- Ma'at

 

[mmu1]

Again we're having a case of 'An army from Waterdeep couldn't possibly be defeated!?' Well it can, if crusaders can lose to Saladin, Waterdhavians can lose to Zhents. The particulars need not be descripted since no PC ever saw it happening.

Like I said, "hand waves".

What trade routes were being attacked? The Zhents are pretty much the only ones to have caravans going through the Anauroch, and the Silver Marches are wonderfully defensible. But no, an army travels hundreds of miles to fight a war on the enemy's terms in the middle of a desert and gets wiped out.

This also still doesn't answer how they managed to get an army through to Waterdeep without wiping out several major cities and the powerhouse that is Silverymoon along the way. (Or did they?)

 

[sithramir]

I would remind you to read up on the mythal that is placed in Waterdeep now.

An invading army wouldn't even get past that yet alone to all the high level people taht might protect it. I'd suggest using a smaller town unless this is epic level play. It would take a few epic level people just to handle the mythals stuff before even dealing with things like Chosen and such.

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

To a degree I'm getting a bit tired of the "it can't be done posts" - how about focusing on ways it could be done? "It can't be done" posts amount to "you're playing it wrong". It's Marimmar's campaign, and the invasion is (if I'm reading it right) a fait accompli - it would be more productive to help explain how they sucessfully won the city.

So far we have the following "sticking points"
- the mythral
- the army
- the distance
- the guilds
- Skullport
- the Churches (and their deities)
- magical city defenses
- native heroes
- allied heroes, armies and cities

How does one deal with these? The high-level heroes issue is already dealt with to some degree - many of the uber-magi running around are retiring. Maybe Khelben suffers a moment of arcane weakness at a key point. He may still be alive, maybe even helping the resistance, but he no longer trusts his powers but doesn't want to show his weakness. So you have this uber-mage helping the PCs without the problem of the NPC overshadowing them. Boom - one ally, a lot weaker than expected but a helpful information source nonetheless.

Mythrals are finnicky things, perhaps Fzoul or the Zhent archmage discovered how previous conquerers defeated such mythrals. Bane is Lawful Evil, there has to be some infernal forces who remember the fall ofthe Cormanthyr and the mythrals from the Age of Sorcery. If you have something that defeats elven high magic (mythrals) then more mundane magics and defenses wouldn't be such a problem. Any PC hero types would target such an artifact, devil or spell which is likely well guarded. Boom - instant plot point.

Skullport is mostly slavers, Beholders and Drow IIRC. What isn't there to say that the Zhentarim didn't have help from them in some way? The Zhentarim could have promised increased trade, perhaps making alliances with one or more rival forces within Undermountain. Same goes for the guilds. The promise of secured trade (namely because you controlled the bandits) placates most. Those guildmasters with more principles than greed are "encouraged" from within their own guild to retire or at least stay out of the situation.

This leaves the churches, the army itself and the physical/non-magical defenses of the city itself. Any suggestions on how they managed to get through these?

 

[Marimmar]

Well, at first I didn't think much about about the war and all the complications it would bring. I just needed some outside threat that came from Anauroch for which an army was needed. Since my PCs were conscripts in the militia of Ironmaster they were sent as quality not quantity troops to Waterdeep. The adventure's plot said that the main Waterdhavian army was destroyed and the PCs needed to get rid of the enemy commander... but they didn't.

So now I'm stuck with either the old 'well erm, the zhentisch army went to Waterdeep laid siege to it and got his butt kicked' or the cities on the way to Waterdeep as well as Waterdeep itself were somehow defeated to make a point that the PCs actions make a difference.

~Marimmar

 

[Mystery Man]

Couple quick thoughts to plug those loose ends.


- the mythal - Mythals were created by Elven high magic before the weave took its present form. Mythals are beginning to fail. This one failed. Problem solved (hopefully)

- the distance - Gate

- the guilds - Internal forces within Waterdeep (Xanathar's guild)working with external forces (Zhents)

 

[Mystery Man]

So now I'm stuck with either the old 'well erm, the zhentisch army went to Waterdeep laid siege to it and got his butt kicked' or the cities on the way to Waterdeep as well as Waterdeep itself were somehow defeated to make a point that the PCs actions make a difference.

You're talking about a lot of people here. The PC's can still be the difference on whether Waterdeep is liberated or not. I wouldn't worry too much about what problems there are in taking over the city. Let your PC's decide what role they want to play in liberating it and go from there. They want their true res bad enough, make them earn it.

This also still doesn't answer how they managed to get an army through to Waterdeep without wiping out several major cities and the powerhouse that is Silverymoon along the way. (Or did they?)

Gate.