[FR] Waterdeep in Ashes

[Paragon]

I agree with mmu1 somewhat. hell balders gate is in ashes in our world. i just think that it is a stretch to have waterdeep sacked by the zhents. they have enough going on in their own backyard without dragging people across the biggest desert in the world to lay siege to a citadel of a city.
that being said, if you want to burn waterdeep, burn it.
when is the next rage of dragons? you could use that to your advantage.

Paragon

 

[MaxKaladin]

And when they do this, the Silver Marches, Cormyr and the Dales just sit on their hands doing nothing?

Perhaps.

The problem for Cormyr is that the Dales are in the way and the Dales are almost as suspicious of Cormyr as they are of the Zhents. They've refused Cormyrian help before on the theory that the Cormyrians might not leave when they were done.

The Dales themselves are horribly fractious. They can't really seem to agree on any common action aside from keeping other powers out of the dales. Supplies going across the desert -- assuming they detect it -- doesn't strike me as the sort of thing they're likely to interfere with.

The Silver Marches don't have a convenient route to get to Llorkh. The High Forest and the Nether mountains are in the way, not to mention the treant-controlled ruins of Hellgate Keep. They might be able to interfere with adventurers, but not an army.

This all assumes they figure out what's going on before its too late. Gathering supplies ought to be fairly discrete. The Zhents have caravans going to and from Llorkh all the time. If every caravan drops 10 or 20% of its cargo in LLorkh how many people are going to assume its for something as daring as an attack on Waterdeep? Said supplies may not even go to the city of Llorkh itself. I seem to recall from one old product that the Zhents have taken over numerous played out mines in the surrounding hills for use as hidden supply caches. Gathering an army will set off alarm bells, but that's probably what prompted the Waterdhavian army in this guys campaign.

As for weakening ZK, well, it sounds like most of this army was locally recruited humanoids so that won't weaken the Keep too much.

It's not the idea that Waterdeep can't be sacked - anything can be, with enough resources - it's that, given how the world is laid out, it's about the least likely city in North-Western Faerun to be captured by the Zhents, and it makes no sense at all for them to capture it.
If they actually had the resources to do it, they'd have to be out of their minds not to go for the Silver Marches or the Dales, or Cormyr, or try to reestablish their control of Darkhold and go for the Western Heartlands...

Not that I'm some kind of FR purist (first thing I did when I ran a FR game is to tone down the ridiculous power level a few clicks, and re-adjust nonsense like a metropolis every 50 miles in areas that could never support the population...), but I think that sweeping changes to a world work best when you keep cause and effect in mind, FR is disjointed enough as it is.

Sacking Waterdeep isn't the first choice I'd have made either, but I'm trying to give constructive advice as to how this might happen since its already happened in the original poster's campaign.

 

[Reis_Thunderwood]

In a campaign I played in years ago, an avatar of Gond was driven insane by its association with Cyric. Sounds strange yes, but they have associated in the past.

Anyway, the insane Gond avatar created a technology surge in areas of the realms, and all of a sudden there is an army that can levy massive non-magical might against a city like Waterdeep. Now you have a Zhentarim army that could breach the walls of the city, deal with the golems, and even threaten Khelben. A few enchanted bullets on a magically reloading rifle in the hands of a few high level rogues would make even Khelben afraid. Add cannonfire to take out the golems and walls.

If you don't like the idea of the massive technology surge in the Realms, put this event in the far past (fill in some other force instead of Cyric). In the past, this Gond avatar created a dozen or so Anaxims (epic). Now these Anaxims can create Iron Golems, and just for kicks, give them the ability to cast some additional spells (like Greater Fantastic Machine and Greater Magic Weapon). Now, you have a force comprised of Anaxims, Iron Golems, Greater Fantastic Machines.

Now, throw in some Automatons as low level infantry, or even some Inevitables (they ought to get along with the Anaxims fine). Figure that they can gate into Waterdeep, and then due their largely magic immune might, versatility, would absolutely raze Waterdeep. The Mythal wouldn't help, Khelben would be next to useless, the ground forces wouldn't be able to deal with these forces.

The tie in with the Zhentarim is that they contacted these entities, and worked out a deal where they would get to split the wealth of the city, so that the Anaxims could expand the size of their forces.

Or you could mix the two and leave a cache of technology in the Realms, and the Zhentarim have recovered it. Now it is much more localized, but could still be used with devastating effect.

Burn baby burn!

 

[Derulbaskul]

I agree with an earlier post about using a meteor strike as described in When The Sky Falls. I'm about to do that in my campaign with Silverymoon... unless the players pick up the clues in time and prevent it.

Otherwise, taking Waterdeep would be very, very difficult, although the Juggernaut mentioned might be enough to tip the balance.

Another thing to consider would be how Goldenfields, the giant temple-farm of Chauntea, fits into this. What if Waterdeep had been weakened because blightlord/druids of Talona had laced the crops of Goldenfields with plague?

Cheers
D

 

[Valiantheart]

I just had a funny vision of the Zhents wheeling a big covered siege engine up to the gates of Waterdeep. The wagon pushers flee back to their ranks as the engine cover falls off revealing......one cheesed off Tarrasque. The image alone would be worth a good round of laughs. At least before it kills everything in sight.

 

[Damon Griffin]

As far as taking the city, its true that Waterdeep has formidable defenses. At the same time all the enemy really needs is a good trick up its sleeve and you might just overcome all that. My favorite thought is if you could somehow generate a large anti-magic field.

Emphasis on "somehow". This sort of thing would be a snap in some other games (Hero System leaps to mind) but D&D spells always seem to have really small areas of effect. I think the invading army in question was described as being led by 6th-10th level spellcasters? Without access to epic spells, how do you take a spell that normally has a 10' radius, and make it cover an entire city?

And if we're just talking generally here, not about this specific campaign scenario but just about what would be involved in sacking Waterdeep: if you have access to epic spells, do you in fact need an invading army? Consider:

Dire Winter
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: 1000'
Area: 1000' radius emanation
Duration: 20 hours
Saving Throw: None
Spell does 2d6 cold damage per ROUND to all creatures in the area not magically protected or otherwise resistant to cold; also creates a blizzard effect in the area.

(Better yet, summon a Xixecal, a Colossal Outsider(Cold) to attack the city. It has...oh, way too much going for it to list here, but it is an obscenely powerful 100+ foot high walking glacier with nine separate spell-like abilities usable at will, plus Haste and Meteor Swarm five times per day; it is usually accompanied by 2-5 adult white dragons and is continuously surrounded by the Dire Winter spell effect. Oddly, it's "only" CR 36.)

Pestilence
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 0'
Area: 1000'radius hemisphere
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fort negates
Spell causes slow rotting death to plants, animals and people, drains CON, etc.


Waterdeep's spellcasters may well escape the effects of the Dire Winter or the Pestilence, but they'll likely be the only ones. Of course, if the goal is to eliminate only the spellcasters and others with the capability to resist, and take over an intact city filled with cowed inhabitants, different spells would be indicated.

 

[Valiantheart]

Thats one of the things I've never really liked about DnD. Small scale spells with 1 round casting times. I have a rituals in my game which can require several powerful casters, rare ingredients, and hours/days to cast. Something like that could imitate an Epic spell.

 

[jester47]

A few things could help to take waterdeep:

Diplomacy- If you think you have lost than you have lost. By the numbers and the acreage, the germans won WWI. But they lost at the bargaining table. There is all sorts of scullduggery that would let waterdeep fall.

Magic EMP- Without magic, waterdeeps army is suceptible to the numbers game (and nature for that matter).

Gates- Sure your army can move through these into the city, but what about using operatives to build gates from nasty planes (baator or the abyss) all around the city, disguised as common things. Then, under that threat, a diplomat and a gated army ala the lichqueen could easily take down waterdeep without a blow being struck.

Treachery- Never underestimate the power of a traitor.

The Zhents are a cloak and dagger operation. They will do lots of work in secret before they send an army. When the Zhentish army shows up, you can be sure that they have already struck most of thier major blows. Given treachery, diplomacy, and secret ops, the Zhents could take over Waterdeep quite easily.


Aaron.

 

[GamerMan12]

Another way into in Waterdeep, could be via the underdark and an alliance with Skullport and the odd drow and mindslayer city.

The underdark route to Skullport could have been created by any of the large tunnelling monsters, add in an anti-magic relic and a few allies and the city is toast.


GamerMan12

 

[Ferret]

I would assume that alot of people on the inside working too.