Free healing with Life Transference

[Thanee]

Well, at least if the baseline is, that there is still a problem with it once you fix the target entry. I consider that enough, really.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Regicide]

My claim is that some groups would like to have this option available. That's not the same, or even -close to the same- has houseruling away the spending of surges outside of combat.

Bad argument. It's limited to one class effectively requiring a cleric.

That's what I meant by 'tone-breaking' as opposed to 'game-breaking.' A manner of aesthetics. Which isn't relevant to a discussion on whether a mechanic is broken or not.

It's game breaking.

I can think of -many- reasons to bring a different Leader.

Me too, but none of those reasons are as good as taking a cleric who has this power. Unbalanced. Game breaking.

Because it -isn't- a huge benefit, in terms of surviving combats in many campaigns.

Opinion, and one I strongly disagree with. Even just the ability to do 2x surges worth of healing in one shot at level 2 is freaking awesome. I haven't even bothered to think about it with demigod, but the game is pretty much busted at the point you're demigod anyways so whatever.

And is more combats a bad thing?

Yes.

Prove this, then. Prove that it breaks the game.

It has been proven.

As an aside... you must hate the Artificer. Simply having him in the group means two free surges per day. That must make him the most powerful of the leaders without Transferance of Life.

I can see how you can think an extra 2 surges a day in a party is the same as infinite surges. Okay, I can't, but then I can't understand how you don't see it isn't out of line and game breaking either.

So I agree with Dracosuave that "surge transference" powers are not inherently broken - though I might feel different running a game for a party with more limited healing triggers.

It's not transference, it's infinite.

Just change the effect as follows:

The cleric does not take any damage.
The cleric loses one healing surge instead (and obviously heals twice the cleric's healing surge value to the target).

The cost of the surge will be the errata once WotC has sold enough books.

One simple solution would be to change the target line from one creature to one ally.

Then you want 2 clerics in a party instead of one. Or an acolyte NPC buddy for your cleric.

I think there is no such thing as a group who plays with free & unlimited healing, and I've asked you to provide some evidence of one, twice now.

I do as the healing surge mechanic is so obnoxiously retarded and a prime example of the complete ineptitude of the current DnD developers that I dislike using it. Doing so does change the game however, but unlike the majority of DMs who have been playing for a year or two at most I'm able to account for it when and were appropriate. It's also not a curve ball thrown by WotC at me suddenly in an expansion book as an oversight to a single power for a single class that suddenly breaks my game when someone retrains to it.

Life Transference is broken. Bad design, period. Full stop.

Yep.

Next paragraph: Cure Light Wounds is aesthetically displeasing to me.

Poorly designed, but not broken, yes.

 

[Nifft]

I do as the healing surge mechanic is so obnoxiously retarded and a prime example of the complete ineptitude of the current DnD developers that I dislike using it. Doing so does change the game however, but unlike the majority of DMs who have been playing for a year or two at most I'm able to account for it when and were appropriate. It's also not a curve ball thrown by WotC at me suddenly in an expansion book as an oversight to a single power for a single class that suddenly breaks my game when someone retrains to it.

Interesting. Do you use "surge" values for encounter healing powers?

When do PCs tend to stop for the night? (I'd expect it would be when Daily powers run low.)

Well, at least if the baseline is, that there is still a problem with it once you fix the target entry. I consider that enough, really.

Yeah, but I want to prevent two-Cleric heal-loops, too.

I mean, if you have good players (as I do), then just one stern, skeptical look from the DM may be "enough" to prevent abuse -- but why tempt good players?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Thanee]

The cost of the surge will be the errata once WotC has sold enough books.

I think the inevitable errata will be "Target: One ally".

Bye
Thanee

 

[Regicide]

When do PCs tend to stop for the night? (I'd expect it would be when Daily powers run low.)

Generally when it's night. Usually there is a lot of time spent: a) traveling, b) studying or gathering information, c) shopping, whoring and falling down drunk.

Encounters are typically far enough apart a lot of time is spent traveling between them, or so close together (like a dungeon) that even poor perception checks mean they all glom together into one fight... meaning a lot of surges (and gold) spent on healing potions. It's pretty rare that the time between fights is more than 5 minutes but less than several hours. It's usually seconds or hours.

I can't recall a movie I've seen where it's a five-minute sit-down to catch your breath every fight then kick down the next door as being the standard operating procedure that encounter powers and the spending of healing surges after 5 minutes make 4E to be either. What where they thinking?

 

[Saeviomagy]

I can't recall a movie I've seen where it's a five-minute sit-down to catch your breath every fight then kick down the next door as being the standard operating procedure that encounter powers and the spending of healing surges after 5 minutes make 4E to be either. What where they thinking?

That might be because generally movies don't tend to have a lot of fights as such.

That said, die hard immediately springs to mind.

If we're just talking encounters, then something like the mummy, national treasure, indiana jones etc.

 

[OchreJelly]

Small point of order. The compendium shows this for the target line for LT:

Target: One creature

whereas Cure Light Wounds shows:

Target: You or one creature

I don't have the books near me, but can anyone tell if the rules on targeting show any meaningful difference between the two?

 

[Garthanos]

I will have to reskin life transferal at self in to Channeling the Unicorn Force or something and figure the character considers them (targetting self and targetting ally) as two completely different things even if they are mechanically in one power... ie not a problem. My fighter sweeping attack is both a disarm (opponent scrambling after a dislodged weapon) and a trip.

And I like that the amount is based on a healing surge...

An interesting thing for me is one of the subraces of my game world which sometimes gets created as a skinned shifter is considered an internalized healer... they are unable to externalize there healing powers .. unable to use lay on hands and probably the cleric class because of the same curse that causes the raging... (perhaps that limit is worth enhancing the effect of the rage...given this kind of combo especially since shifters are mechanically like clerics raise your hand yup.. perfect).

I am finding it wierd that I am finding roleplaying opportunities and synergies in some of the identical powers doomsayers on this forum.. have issues with.

 

[Thanee]

Target: You or one creature

I don't have the books near me, but can anyone tell if the rules on targeting show any meaningful difference between the two?

Yeah, that's also in the PHB. It's just redundant, however.

Targeting says: "Creature" of "creatures" means allies and enemies both, as well as you.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

I am finding it wierd that I am finding roleplaying opportunities and synergies in some of the identical powers doomsayers on this forum.. have issues with.

As written... just by spending a few minutes you are able to heal everyone (including yourself) to full hit points, all the time, without using any healing surges at all.

That's definitely issue-having-worthy.

Bye
Thanee