Free Will and Choices

[Kichwas]

Modules are always going to have some loss of free will...

Running without modules will often have such as well.

Consider a game going for months, deep into a very complex plot that the player have chosen and taken an active role in. You show up for session 37, and the PCs suddenly decide to walk away.

If you have a whole pack of NPCs and events that are planned to go off, and they still happen after the PCs walk away, or some of those NPCs come after the PCs... have you taken away the free will of the players to control where the game goes?

You can make arguments for either yes or no to that...

Does free will on the PCs part include a no consequence clause, or does it include a stronger consequence clause than a driven game might?

A lot of time having your events happen, or your NPCs take actions to seemingly stop the PCs from walking away will seem to be you as the DM trying to take away their free will... But it may just be you having the events and NPCs follow a logical course of action.

On the other hand... say you have an idea for a game, and the players follow it along hook, line and sinker, developing it in the direction you desired even more so than you expected, and never doing anything to deviate from or walk away from it. Suppose they are doing this because they think they have to in order to 'resolve the adventure'?

Does them thinking they have no free will mean they have no free will? Even if you were fully able and willing to let them walk away?

I find myself in both of these scenerios quite often, but more so in the second.

Finally, if you had a solid idea ready to go, and they walk from it, and you have no idea what to do next, are you taking their free will away if you see and use logical elements to put your idea back on the table? If they walk and you just let them go and respond, is this itself some kind of flaw if in so doing you ignore logical consequences that should have come about?

 

[Starman]

I read a comic that seemed so point to this very issue: A DM is sitting at the table, the PC have been presented with two doors. The DM is thinking: Choose door one, choose door one, I have created the best trap ever and it is on door one. The PC pick door two, and after a moments hesitation on the DMs part he says "You open door two and a trap goes off". In other words it did not matter all that much which door they picked.

Somebody's been reading Knights of the Dinner Table.

Re: Free will. I usually have a few guidelines. The players I have played with don't know what to do with total freedom. Looking at other people's responses I would say that it seems to boil down to whatever your players are comfortable with.

Starman

 

[Crothian]

I think this really has to do with the players and the DM. One really has to have a feeling of trust between them. My players trust that my plotlines are going to be fun and have the curdisy to warn me before they go off them usually. I trust them to only go against the plot if they feel its truely what the character would do.

 

[ConnorSB]

Its not that my players don't have free will, its that when they decide to walk away from something, there are ALWAYS consequences.

 

[Wombat]

I gave up on trying to control my players back in the 1980s.

For example -- we held a game session about 2 months ago where the players, through misunderstandings and some truly odd choices, ended up using what amounted to 1 sentence in my adventure write-up. Everything else they did that night was totally winging it.

Players have to feel they have a stake in the world. Sometimes they screw up. Sometimes they open up great new avenues. My players have created whole new sub-races of monsters, weird treasures, an important trade item (Sun Wine), and even a small country (somewhat by accident, but the new king is very happy...).

Why railroad characters when letting them go loose is so much more fun for both me and them!

 

[Corinthi]

I try to straddle the fence on the free will issue. I generally try to set up campaigns where the players have set goals, but actually accomplishing the goals is entirely up to them.

I run a lot of Call of Cthulhu, Spycraft, Cyberpunk 2020, etc, and the lessons I've learned as a modern era DM filters into my D&D campaigns.

My adventure design begins with a situation. I base the situation off the character's actions up to that point and try to make certain that the plot hooks will be appealling to those involved. I map out that situation in as much detail as I can stand, including a timetable for how the scenario will progress. The group finds themselves in the scenario and can proceed as they see fit.

This method requires a /lot/ of winging it, and several sessions go completely against what I had in mind, but as a DM you just have to roll with the flow.

 

[Delemental]

So I was wondering how many DMs do that? I know I have, I have a module I want to run, so no matter which way they go, they run into the lead to the next module.

For this particular situation, whether or not it's okay depends on how you handle it.

If you're running it so that no matter what happens they will be presented with a lead-in for this module, but they are free to decide whether or not to follow this lead, I think that's fine.

If you intend to force the PCs to run this module regardless of where they go or the choices they make, then that's railroading and not acceptable.

In the example you gave (which does sound like KoDT, or Dork Tower), if the GM really wanted for the party to experience this trap, then he could have placed it on both doors (if it was logically consistent, of course - if the second door led to the bathroom then a death-trap would be ridiculous) only had one door, or changed the trap's location to one that didn't involve as much of a choice (inthe middle of a corridor, for example). Of course, by extension the GM can't really complain if the party is somehow able to get around his death-trap, or chooses to turn around and leave without going through either door.

Or, another way to think of it: you're free to present the party with a particular event or encounter, but the party must have the choice of being able to apply any preposition they want to that event that isn't impossible within the rules of the game (the party goes through the door, around the door, under the door, etc).

I'm personally in the 'structured free will' camp - I believe a group should have freedom to decide what they want, but that a DM should provide a finite number of options to choose (and 'none of the above' is a valid choice, in which case it falls to the DM to determine what the group would want to pursue). I've been a player in a completely open game, and it does bog down IME if there's no direction at all.

 

[the Jester]

Unlimited free will, but the pcs' actions have repercussions that come around to effect them later.

 

[BSF]

Free Will to make Choices is very important to me. I try to lay out several hooks for story arcs and let my players choose the path(s) they want to pursue. Well, assuming it isn't a campaign that doesn't include the group being in complete service to a lord, church, guild, whatever. Anyway, back to Free Will....

As I said, I try to have plot hooks that the PC's can pursue. I have found that the further down one story arc they go, the more involved they become in it and the stronger the desire to "finish it" becomes. In the meantime, the other story arcs will probably have events going on in them and I try to give the players indications of what is transpiring. Some of the story arcs may have a time-sensitive context to them where certain events are going to happen, unless somebody changes that timetable. So, if the PC's do not pursue that story arc, or if they abandon it, there are consequences. I want them to feel like they are making an impact in the world and you can't do that if there are not consequences. So far, my players have responded positively. Many of them like the way that the world seems "alive" to them. I think this is very much a result of Free Will with consequences.

As a DM, this is not the easiest thing to always run. I tend to prepare things just ahead of when they are needed in the story. I have created villages, keeps, dungeons and adversaries on the fly. Occasionally, I will use the quantum room mechanic where there is a choice of doors, but regardless of which door they choose, they end up with the same room. Basically, when I am creating stuff on the fly, I tend to do things to give me a little more time. The quantum room will usually have something that will hold the PC's attention while I rough out more ideas, including the "other door".

This probably sounds a bit cheesy, but it works. As Crothian mentioned, if your players trust you, and you trust them, it is much more fun. So, if I stumble for a moment because I am trying to create something on the fly, they are very forgiving. My players trust me to keep the storyline consistent and they don't automatically assume I am out to screw them. They know that they can choose a different path and if there are consequences, it isn't because I am trying to punish them, it is because the world consistency demands that something happen.

 

[Harlock]

A question for the DMs out there:

Yeah, Someone actually asked my opinion!

How much free will do your PCs actually have? Do their choices matter all that much?

They matter a great deal. I tend to DM for my players. meaning I am there to serve them as a referee and guide the plot, but they can affect the plot and do what tey want so long as they are prepared for the world to continue on.

I read a comic that seemed so point to this very issue: A DM is sitting at the table, the PC have been presented with two doors. The DM is thinking: Choose door one, choose door one, I have created the best trap ever and it is on door one. The PC pick door two, and after a moments hesitation on the DMs part he says "You open door two and a trap goes off". In other words it did not matter all that much which door they picked.

Couldn't the DM have saved a lot of time by simply having one door that had the trap that led to another room with the other door to whatever it was supposed to be? Kind of the glass half full or half empty thing: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be...

So I was wondering how many DMs do that? I know I have, I have a module I want to run, so no matter which way they go, they run into the lead to the next module.

I see lots of questions like this on this board and wonder if people have forgotten how to hook. There's different levels of hooking. A DM can say "Oh by the way, while you were wadering through the streets you heard that a caravan was hijacked two countries south of here..." in reference to someone hording supplies in preparation for an onslaught or a DM can say, "The supply train that had your new +X magic sword of bad guy slaying never showed up. you've heard rumors that it was hijacked two countries south of here. The merchant you ordered from points to a sign that says, 'All sales final, no refunds' and shrugs." Giving PCs a personal stake in any plot hook makes it much more likely to snag them. It doesn't have to be as blatant as my example was even as that can grow obvious and boring as well, and at some point your players will challenge it to see what happens if they ignore it either by choice or by happenstance as they get sidetracked. But, as a player I must say I prefer a solid hook. Presenting me with 25 vague plot hooks is likely only to get me more confused as I try and figure out what the DM "really" wants me to do. It inspires second-guessing and distress in me as I wonder if by not taking hook A I am allowing some new Big Bad Evil Guy to rise to power or worse, if by doing hook A I am actually aiding his agenda. I play D&D to be heroic and do amazing and fun things. A Dm can hook me simply with the tried and true "The bad guy did this, you need to right this wrong". It all comes down to knowing your players. I've known DMs who do what the comic stated - giving the appearance of free will even if it is not there, and that is often times never known to players, so meh... who knows. Still as a DM, save yourself the trouble and just make the non trapped door in a room behind the trapped one.