Frontline Rogue?

Krafen

First Post
shilsen said:
Nope. Ghost touch works vs. incorporeal creatures. When Blinking, you're going ethereal. They're quite different.

From the SRD's description of the blink spell (emphasis added):

An ethereal creature is invisible, incorporeal, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down. As an incorporeal creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures.


From the SRD's description of the ghost touch weapon ability (emphasis added):

A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. (An incorporeal creature’s 50% chance to avoid damage does not apply to attacks with ghost touch weapons.) The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as either corporeal or incorporeal at any given time, whichever is more beneficial to the wielder.
 

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Herobizkit

Adventurer
I'm shocked you didn't take Tumble as one of your initial Rogue skills.

Personally, if you want to be more of a front-line Fighter, be one. HP aside (and whatever buff that ups your CON would make sense here), all you really need to do is strap on some decent armor (up to chain shirt if you don't mind taking a penalty to Tumble, better if you don't take Tumble at all) and slog it out. As a front-liner, your job is to fight, so leave the buffs and fancy-pants effects to the wizard/cleric. Pick up a ranged weapon and help the ranged warriors pepper your foes.

Oh, and tell the Wiz/Cle to grab a Ring of Force... and for yourself, a Sun Blade would be the ultimate quest weapon for you I'd think.
 


hong

WotC's bitch
shilsen said:
Nope. Ghost touch works vs. incorporeal creatures. When Blinking, you're going ethereal. They're quite different.
Is there anything that does help with ethereal? Would make the monk's and ninja's ethereal jaunt a bit more useful.
 

MarkB

Legend
Krafen said:
From the SRD's description of the blink spell (emphasis added):

An ethereal creature is invisible, incorporeal, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down. As an incorporeal creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures.
The description given in ethereal jaunt substitutes the word "insubstantial", and that's the 'root' spell for defining etherealness effects. I suspect the version in the blink spell is an inaccurate conversion of that wording.
 

Imre

First Post
Unfortunately, I think I was mixing feats in my head. I think I combined Slashing Flurry with something else. However, Flurry would be basically useless. Two-Weapon Pounce, however, is a good choice if you have the Tumble for it.

Ghost touch does not work with ethereal creatures. Read the "There, Not There" series on the rules on the Wizards site, it's all outlined there.
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
RigaMortus2 said:
Don't you need some sort of shape changing spell or ability in order to qualify for Warshaper? How does a Barb 2/Rogue 3 qualify?

Those levels grant BAB +4, which is the harder requirement for a Changeling. (Changelings are shapeshifters.)

Cheers, -- N
 

rgard

Adventurer
mcgeedis said:
Our front line Warforged Fighter/Juggernaut just left the group leaving us with a Human Wizard/Cleric, Dwarven Artificer, Dwarven Urban Ranger, Duskblade/Human Paragon, and myself, a Changeling Rogue 5/Fighter 2. We are all about 7th level. I am trying to figure out how to maximize my Rogue to best match alongside the Duskblade as a melee fighter.

Obviously the Wizard/Cleric is out. And the Artifcer seems content and best at staying at a distance and using wands and pre-encounter buffing. The Ranger has been focusing on using a gun. Don't ask me what kind and whatnot. But he had to take a feat to use it, and he just now got Rapid Shot so he can finally use it once a round. So, for the most part he is the ranged combatant in the party (I know, ranged Dwarf), but he has oodles of HP.

My Rogue/Fighter is quite useful in melee too, although as a Changeling she was primarily built as a skill based social Rogue. She is sporting two weapon fighting type of combat in efforts to use her sneak attack more often. She has high AC and decent attack bonus, but terribly low HP. Her primary method in battle was to wait for the Warforged to enter battle, then she would tumble to flanking position, then lay the smack down with TWF and SA. But now that the Warforged is gone, this has changed tactics tremendously. My Rogue really is the only character after the Duskblade that is somewhat useful in melee (primarily because the other characters are inexperienced with the rules still). But she has been getting dropped more and more as of late due to the encounters being more challenging (and low HP), and this will only increase now that the Warforged is gone. Add in to the equation the fact that we will now come up against more and more undead according to the DM, so SA will be useless (although DM said if I find it, I can buy a ring of Gravestrike for 16,000 gp).

What should the Rogue do from this point on? The DM said that trap finding will still be very important, as will social skills (Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, etc...) so I don't want to automatically stray away from being a Rogue. Especially since her STR is 10 and her CON is 12. I was thinking that Warshaper would be good since at second level she would get +4 to STR and CON. But other than that, what other feats to pursue? Would non social skills like Tumble and UMD still be worth the effort?

Her current Feats are Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Weapon Finesse, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw and Weapon Focus: Short Sword.

Any thoughts would be welcomed. Thanks in advance!

Can you re-engineer the character? If yes, make him a martial rogue (variant from UA) where you drop sneak attack and pick up the fighter bonus feat progression.
 

mcgeedis

First Post
rgard said:
Can you re-engineer the character? If yes, make him a martial rogue (variant from UA) where you drop sneak attack and pick up the fighter bonus feat progression.

I thought about this and the DM might let me do this; he is willing to let us retrain per the PHB2 (4 skill points a level, 1 feat a level, etc...). But what feats would she take? She has a STR of 10, so Sneak Attack was the only real way to deal damage.

Here are her abilities.
STR 10
CON 12
DEX 18
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 16
 

Darklone

Registered User
I wouldn't do this... what do you need the feats for if you can't cause damage? You need more staying power, feats are not too good at that. You'd need hitpoints.

So if the DM would allow you to exchange two rogue levels with ftr levels, that might help...
 

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