Frontline Rogue?

mcgeedis

First Post
Our front line Warforged Fighter/Juggernaut just left the group leaving us with a Human Wizard/Cleric, Dwarven Artificer, Dwarven Urban Ranger, Duskblade/Human Paragon, and myself, a Changeling Rogue 5/Fighter 2. We are all about 7th level. I am trying to figure out how to maximize my Rogue to best match alongside the Duskblade as a melee fighter.

Obviously the Wizard/Cleric is out. And the Artifcer seems content and best at staying at a distance and using wands and pre-encounter buffing. The Ranger has been focusing on using a gun. Don't ask me what kind and whatnot. But he had to take a feat to use it, and he just now got Rapid Shot so he can finally use it once a round. So, for the most part he is the ranged combatant in the party (I know, ranged Dwarf), but he has oodles of HP.

My Rogue/Fighter is quite useful in melee too, although as a Changeling she was primarily built as a skill based social Rogue. She is sporting two weapon fighting type of combat in efforts to use her sneak attack more often. She has high AC and decent attack bonus, but terribly low HP. Her primary method in battle was to wait for the Warforged to enter battle, then she would tumble to flanking position, then lay the smack down with TWF and SA. But now that the Warforged is gone, this has changed tactics tremendously. My Rogue really is the only character after the Duskblade that is somewhat useful in melee (primarily because the other characters are inexperienced with the rules still). But she has been getting dropped more and more as of late due to the encounters being more challenging (and low HP), and this will only increase now that the Warforged is gone. Add in to the equation the fact that we will now come up against more and more undead according to the DM, so SA will be useless (although DM said if I find it, I can buy a ring of Gravestrike for 16,000 gp).

What should the Rogue do from this point on? The DM said that trap finding will still be very important, as will social skills (Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, etc...) so I don't want to automatically stray away from being a Rogue. Especially since her STR is 10 and her CON is 12. I was thinking that Warshaper would be good since at second level she would get +4 to STR and CON. But other than that, what other feats to pursue? Would non social skills like Tumble and UMD still be worth the effort?

Her current Feats are Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Weapon Finesse, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw and Weapon Focus: Short Sword.

Any thoughts would be welcomed. Thanks in advance!
 

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Darklone

Registered User
Get a wand of False Life, Imp Toughness and asap a con booster item. As a TWF dude, you might get good mileage out of fighting defensively and C-expt, boosting your AC incredibly high while the ranged combat dudes kill the enemies (and with enough attacks, you'll still hit pretty often). Make sure the cleric is always within healing range.

You might change to heavy armor and a doubleweapon if it's worth it with your Dex.
 

mcgeedis

First Post
Elethiomel said:
If she's a social rogue, her high CHA combined with ranks in UMD would enable her to use wands of Gravestrike and Golemstrike.


Gravestrike is a swift action spell, so not too sure its usefulness here vs a ring to have it permanently. What is Golemstrike?
 

Elethiomel

First Post
mcgeedis said:
Gravestrike is a swift action spell, so not too sure its usefulness here vs a ring to have it permanently. What is Golemstrike?
Golemstrike = Gravestrike, but for Golems rather than Undead.

And yeah, that's true about the wand not being as useful as the ring. But much cheaper!
 

MarkB

Legend
Elethiomel said:
Golemstrike = Gravestrike, but for Golems rather than Undead.

And yeah, that's true about the wand not being as useful as the ring. But much cheaper!
Grave Strike is a swift-action spell that lasts for one round, and wands always have a minimum casting time of 1 standard action, regardless of the spell within them. That makes a wand of grave strike almost completely useless, since the time taken to activate the spell leaves you with no time to take advantage of its effects before it wears off, barring Attacks of Opportunity.

To the OP: Possibilities to consider include investing in a Reach weapon, so that you can keep some distance from your foes and reach flanking positions more easily, or taking Telling Blow (PHBII feat) and investing in a weapon with a large critical threat range, so as to be able to do your sneak attack damage more often even when not flanking.
 

Legildur

First Post
Our group gets an awful lot of mileage out of the Shield Other clerical spell, that certainly helps offset a low HP total (although it can put the cleric at risk with area effect damage spells).

Aside from that, a cloak of minor displacement, potions of blur, ring of blinking etc are incredibly good at creating miss chances; which can often be of more value that straight AC.
 

Corsair

First Post
You already qualify for Warshaper. Obviously this doesn't help you NOW, but it may help in the future should you choose to advance that way.
 

Imre

First Post
Flanking is a must: Vexing and Adaptable Flanker from PHB2 are good. If you're already maxing out Bluff, Im Feint is a good option. If you take that route, the TWF feat (in PHB2) which lets you attack once with each weapon as a standard action is clutch, since your later attacks probably won't be hitting much anyway. There are also feats which combine all of these which aren't bad: Tumbling Feint, etc. And of course any melee rogue needs Elusive Target (CW).

As for magic, Blinking would be good and something that gives you a miss chance like Displacement or Mirror Image would do very nicely to make up for the lack of HP.
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
Corsair said:
You already qualify for Warshaper. Obviously this doesn't help you NOW, but it may help in the future should you choose to advance that way.

I'd like to quote this for truth with extreme prejudice.

If you're allowed to rebuild, my suggestions is to drop the Fighter levels; pick up Barbarian instead. More hit points, +10 ft. speed is awesome for a flanker who tumbles a lot, and Rage can save your life if used judiciously.

Barb 2 / Rogue 3 / Warshaper 4 / Rogue +10 would be ideal IMHO.

Cheers, -- N
 

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