D&D General Frustating Misunderstandings About Warlocks

[Incenjucar]

Communication solves this immediately. This is a social game, so it's an excellent chance to practice core social skills. There are certainly your indecisive Calvinball players but you'll need to work with them regardless.

 

[Kurotowa]

I am not sure what your point here is in regards to the original reason we talked about this. What you write doesn't change anything about the issue: When your choice of Patron is only finalized at Level 3 of the Warlock class, the first 2 Warlock levels, the GM can't integrate it as easily into the story for roleplaying and story hooks, because the patron is undecided, and any type of characterization and color added to a potential interaction could easily end up being inconsistent with the final Patron choice.

My point is that you're positing the uncertainty of Patron is an out-of-game situation. That in-game the Patron is already locked in, but it exists in a state of quantum uncertainty until the player commits to a choice at 3rd level. My counter argument is that the uncertainty can be in-game as well.

The book is explicit that Warlocks don't have be bound to a single Patron, but can instead shop around and have smaller pacts with multiple entities. So even if the player plans to lock in with a main Patron, they can still frame the intern levels as them getting power from a range of minor spirits and lesser powers. They aren't locked in, they haven't signed in with the big boss yet, they're applying with multiple powers and waiting to see who makes the right offer.

Or, you know, the player has a clear and specific idea of who they want as their Patron, and there's no issue at all.

 

[Marandahir]

I'd argue it's the other way around - it's only pedantic to claim that they don't get high level spells because they don't cast them in the "normal way". IMO, by all reasonable measures, they absolutely have and cast high-level spells.

In many ways, Warlock shows how "half-casters" probably should have worked otherwise. During OneD&D, WotC experimented with removing Mystic Arcanum and spreading Warlock Spell levels 1-5 across all 20 levels akin to Artificer, Paladin, & Ranger.

But if anything, Warlock shows how you can balance these half-casters while still giving them access to spells that make sense for their classes (such as the Elemental Investitures for Rangers).

I'd also note that Bards were half-casters in 3E & v.3.5, so the line between heavily limited spell prep full casters (Bard, Sorcerer), Warlock's Pact Magic + Mystic Arcanum, and Half-casters is pretty thin.

I'd also note that even Cleric & Druid have martial-lite options built into their core features rather than subclasses - though in these cases it might be because they were trying to show what a more castery Paladin or Ranger might be that has full caster spell progression and access to those higher level spells.

So there's a continuity between all classes. Even each of the four Fully Non-Caster Martial classes have at least one subclass with significant spell access (though Warrior of the Elements removes this from Monks).

Warlocks are a great model for homebrew class development.

 

[Weiley31]

So maybe your fresh faced 1st level Warlock is still on the open market, making small deals with minor spirits while waiting to land a more powerful and long term benefactor. Or maybe they've already got a prospective patron they're working with, but the pact isn't sealed and they haven't received the full benefits package yet. There's lots of ways to flavor it.

That's LITERALLY how Tales of the Valiant describes the Warlock in their class workshop.

Until your Patron locks ya in, your basically work shopping yourself through potential "employers."

 

[Minigiant]

There are lore youtubers, flavor youtubers, mechanics youtubers, PC optimization youtubers, NPC optimization youtubers, monster builder youtubers, worldbuilding youtubers, DMing youtubers etc.

Rarely are any one good at more than 3 things in video form.

 

[Kurotowa]

That's LITERALLY how Tales of the Valiant describes the Warlock in their class workshop.

Until your Patron locks ya in, your basically work shopping yourself through potential "employers."

Warlocks have a ton of flavor flexibility. You could easily do a GOO Warlock that steals notes from the old Vestige Binders of 3e. Someone who kindles the embers of dead or forgotten gods with small rituals, just enough to spark a few weary thoughts and tease a few magical secrets loose. They're not a Cleric of any one of them, but have a whole roster and get a little bit from each.

It's a shame I don't love the mechanics of the 5e Warlock nearly as much as I do the flavor.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Warlocks have a ton of flavor flexibility. You could easily do a GOO Warlock that steals notes from the old Vestige Binders of 3e. Someone who kindles the embers of dead or forgotten gods with small rituals, just enough to spark a few weary thoughts and tease a few magical secrets loose. They're not a Cleric of any one of them, but have a whole roster and get a little bit from each.

It's a shame I don't love the mechanics of the 5e Warlock nearly as much as I do the flavor.

My wife had the idea of having a Celestial Warlock whose patron is Omin Dran of Aquisitions Inc, and the relationship is a literal franchise contract.

Makes me want to do a short AqInc franchise game.