Frustration with KotSF and pacing

[Rechan]

There's not exactly a lot of 'story' to be had there, and what there is, it's pretty bland.

Well, aside from

Spoiler

The stuff with Sir Keegan

.

 

[MerricB]

I thought the story of Keep on the Shadowfell was pretty strong; where it fell down for us was in the overly-long final dungeon section. However, the first half of the adventure with important parts of play alternating between adventure sites and the village worked really well. Some of the NPCs became very important to us. Enough so that I made sure to work them into the story in later adventures in the series.

Where Keep could be improved is with better foreknowledge (for the players) of the final Big Bad; as it stands, you know there's a danger in the Keep who wants you dead, but it doesn't quite play like that at the end.

Playing once per week? We played once per two weeks. Combats were long, in the beginning. If I ran the game again today, especially with Essentials characters, it'd go a lot faster. System mastery makes a big difference, and an inexperienced DM can really make things drag.

Cheers!

 

[jbear]

I would look into why its taking an HOUR or 2 per encounter at such a low level. There are some boss encounters that may last that long, but the rest shouldn't. Also the fact that you've all played at least at year and using classes that are more advanced then what KotSF was prepared for, some of the encounters should be pushovers. Being at level 3 now, you should be almost completed with the adventure. It only goes to level 3, so I don't see how this is going to last until April.

It sounds like there is a misunderstanding somewhere.

Yeah, i thought the same thing. Wierd. It's an adventure for lvls 1-3. There are however extensions to the adventure (FR's version and extra pre-enter the keep encounters) but they aren't that much of an extension.

Having 6 players in the group (including 2 leaders) will slow combat down considerably and he may have the feeling he needs to throw in extra stuff to challenge PCs.

KotS is a very good example of the frequent need to take published adventures as a starting place ti build upon. Personally I think all of the eastern part of lvl one should be totally cut, and its as simple as putting a wall where a passageway leads.

As for feeling like every time you succeed you are beset again ... well if that is a problem for you then you'd hate playing in one of my games! I consider it my job to make my players feel constantly bruised, battered, beaten, hounded and suffering. Of course they have their victories and brief moments of rest. But many of them lead or even cause new challenges to arise.

[sblock=Example: Warning: Wordy and srtrays from the topic] My PCs have just removed a shard (remnant from the shattered body of the now deceased goddess of magic) from the head of the main NPC, who had been fighting against a monsterous creature that beset the town in a most diabolical way. The PCs had previously found several clues to suggest that it was that same NPC who was also responsable for having released the monster with an apparatus he invented capable of separating the soul. They also discovered that he had been planning to release someone from their prison who he calls 'The Father' with the same apparatus. When he was questioned on these matters, every time he tried to speak of certain things he would be stopped by a splitting pain in his head. When they discovered the shard was the cause, and having alterior motivations of their own to possess the shard themselves, the PCs took the main NPC to the town sanitarium where a delicate operation was performed by the physician to remove it.

They defeated the Creature after a battle of epic proportions waged literally across the entire town (that I made a scale battle map for on a massive sheet of tansparent plastic) as the moster used the NPC's aparatus to open the very gates of the shadowfell which has seen them finally reach paragon level.

And just as they have reached this pinnacle of victory after countless months of persecution across the face of the continent by secret socieites, vengeful drow, regional authorities and skilled assassins, dragging themselves through a deadly bog only to walk into a nearly fatal ambush by aforementioned assassins, to survive only to walk into a blood sacrifice ritual which they inadvertantly volunteered to participate in causing them to be wildly sidetrekked as they slip through reality into a haunted castle trapped in space and time doomed to play out the bloody massacre that repeats itself day after day. The curse finally broken, the return to their own time, but no rest for the wicked. On to face the resurgent horde that call themselves the Red Hand ... etc etc all in an effort to find the NPC with the shrad lodged in his head, the man who stood against this chaos, the chaos he himself had caused.

Little do my PCs know their victory once again is going to seem very hollow when they discover that it was the shard that inspired the NPC's goodness, and once removed his self knowledge will come floodingback ... and his design to release The Father, Father Chaos, will resume in earnest (hopefully with the PC's help). For little do they know the depths of evil to this man known as (and this is the beautiful thing about playing D&D with people who are absolute virgins to RPG because they had no idea who this NPC was even though they knew his real name) ... Strahd Von Zarovich!

Hehe, I think the last time my PCs were able to comfortably just relax, go shopping, enjoy a few weeks rest (err ... I mean a good nights rest) was at around level 5. It's been full on intense. I've loved it! By the sounds, you'd hate it! But that doesn't necesarily make a bad DM IMO. [/sblock]

 

[Herobizkit]

Here's an update on my current experience with KotS.

We have finally cleared the first floor of the keep. Somehow, we are all 4th level. If this adventure was to top out at 3rd level with FIVE PC's, we should be less... the DM did start doubling xp last game, so i guess we're still fiddling with advancement rate.

Fights are going much better now. We actually got our first milestone by watching through two fairly simple fights without resting. And I actually felt good about it - finally, an easy fight was handled with no muss, no fuss.

 

[Rechan]

We have finally cleared the first floor of the keep. Somehow, we are all 4th level. If this adventure was to top out at 3rd level with FIVE PC's, we should be less... the DM did start doubling xp last game, so i guess we're still fiddling with advancement rate.

4th level after the first level of the keep? That's... not right.

 

[Tymophil]

I don't think your Dungeon Master has to double the number of experience points allowed for combat encounters... All your Dungeon Master has to do is to create OTHER kinds of encounters, and reward them with experience points, as per the rules!
Any kind of encounter can receive a fair amount of experience points in D&D4. All your Dungeon Master has to do is fill some non-combat encounters with Skill Challenges (as a bonus, your group will be pushed forward by this kind of encounter). Even a simple question such as : “What do you do?” can lead to a skill challenge. If each player gives an action for his character, it is likely that a simple Skill Challenge will have reached its conclusion... And it means that the group can receive as much experience point as a monster of their level.
Your Dungeon Master can even use the rules in the Dungeon Masters Guide (1 and 2) to fine tune the DD, the length of the challenges, etc.
Your Dungeon Master can also (and should) use hazards, puzzles, etc.
Moreover the DM can add quests, both minor and major, to broaden and reward the weaving of the story by the players. Those quests can help the DM to write his storyline as a bonus.