Full defense question.....

[The Harlequin]

Ok, this came up in a game i was playing yesterday.

The monk was being attacked by an animated carpet who was a grappling god from hell. So the monk thought he would go full defense to increase his ac. He also thought that when the carpet would initiate the grapple he would get his AoO on it, as a grapple provokes an AoO.

So this is the question.

1. Are you still able to make AoO`s when you take the full defense option ?

And in the same battle another question came up from the grappling rules.

2. Are the size modifier rules in grappling a bonus for the attacker or a penalty ?

Because my justification was that it is harder to grapple smaller creatures and another party member said it should be easier to grapple your target the bigger you are.

Any help is much appreciated.

Cheers

The Harlequin

 

[ruleslawyer]

1. According to a recent Sage Advice (Dragon 294 IIRC), yes.

2. The size modifier is a BONUS for large size creatures, reflecting the fact that these creatures just have that much more mass and leverage with which to grapple. So yes, giants may have an awfully hard time hitting nimble gnomish rogues, but they're much better at just sitting on them until they smush.

 

[The Harlequin]

WOW !!!!

So why does being large, make it harder to hit the small creatures and being large make it easier to turn the small creatures into pretzels ???

Isnt it kind of contradictary ???

The Harlequin

 

[GreyCloak]

Think of it this way.

A giant swinging a club at a nimble monk. As opposed to a monk kicking said giant in the shins. Both cases of straight out attack and the larger size getting the penalty.

Now initate the grapple. Gotta make a touch attack, there you do have the penalty, either to the giant's AC if he's being grappled, or to giant's attack if he is grappling. Same as above.

Now assuming that the grapple takes place, You've got either a monk trying to bear hug one of the giant's limbs, or the giant holding the monk in his fist. There's the size advantage in the grapple. *Squish*

 

[Shirt Guy John]

So yes, giants may have an awfully hard time hitting nimble gnomish rogues, but they're much better at just sitting on them until they smush.

That has to be one of the funniest statements that I've seen on these boards!

Anyways, it seems to make a little bit of sense to me... no wait... it doesn't. If anything, I could see a giant getting a bonus to grapple checks after they have gotten hold (to pin or such), but I would think that they still would suffer for being really big.

Oh well, when in doubt, go with the rules.

[Edit]: Okay, I forgot about the touch attack. Well then, I think it makes complete sense.

 

[ThenHeCame]

Being a submussion wrestler, Grecro-Roman Wrestler and a Judoka, size does matter in a clinch. Levrage does come into play, but the mechanics of that are way too detailed to be conformed to the D20 system. once the bigger guy has his hands on the smaller target and they lock up, escape is difficult.

 

[The Harlequin]

Ok so according to the Sage you can make an AoO when you take full defense.

When you take a partial defense you get a +2 to your AC and a -4 to your attack rolls.

What are the modifiers for the full defense option?

The Harlequin

 

[dr_nukem]

That's the kicker...there are none!!

I'd vote that TotalDefense means you don't get AoO...I'd also vote that TD means you're not threatening any squares. *ALL* you do is move and avoid getting hit...

If you want to get AoO and threaten squares, then Fight Defensively...if you don't want to get hit at all, then go Total Defense.

 

[Madfox]

You can take AOO when taking the full defensive action, the sage adviced in that same remark to give this AOO a -4 penalty just as with fighting defensive. Besides, to fight defensively you have to make an actual melee attack roll that round. So under a lot of circumstances characters cannot fight defensively at all. I have little problems with allowing AOO for characters on the full defensive.

Being a submussion wrestler, Grecro-Roman Wrestler and a Judoka, size does matter in a clinch. Levrage does come into play, but the mechanics of that are way too detailed to be conformed to the D20 system. once the bigger guy has his hands on the smaller target and they lock up, escape is difficult.

I wonder if you ever tried to wrestle with a giant Size does not matter in the d20 system if it is within the same size category. Since all humans fall within the same size category your statement is in the actual rules. A large sized creature though is at least 10 ft tall and I doubt you ever wrestled with one of these

In the official grapple rules, actually grabbing the opponent is more difficult for the bigger target. After all, a normal touch attack is required before the pinning attempt can be made. The size difference bonusses (or penalties) only come into play when the hold/grapple starts.

 

[bensei]

Isn't the fact that larger creatures are more powerful in a grapple already represented in the fact that they normally have a higher strength? What factor does the size bonus represent? The larger creature's mass?