Fury over Black Hermione Granger

[Kramodlog]

Some grimsly stats compiled by the Guardian:

Despite making up only 2% of the total US population, African American males between the ages of 15 and 34 comprised more than 15% of all deaths logged this year by an ongoing investigation into the use of deadly force by police. Their rate of police-involved deaths was five times higher than for white men of the same age

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

The Washigton Post had a similar compilation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-year-end/

 

[Maxperson]

It is because all history in the US is white history, white lives have always mattered, at one time only black colleges were the only ones accepting black students. Racism is still very much alive in the US just look at what Obama has had to deal with. I don't see anyone screaming for Ted Cruz's birth certificate I have never seen other first ladies described as apes. Civil rights have improved since the days of Jim Crow but there are still issues.

Tell that to the Irish and other white minorities who were oppressed by the U.S. when they came over. White lives have not always mattered. Nor is Obama's birth certificate of any particular meaning. Democrats screamed just as loudly over George Bush, but about different things. The certificate was just one way to scream at the sitting President, not something that was about race. Unreasonable screams happen from the other party in this country.

Look how eagerly certain news organizations painted Treyon Martin as a thug. In Texas a rich white boy gets drunks and kills four people and gets probation a black boy gets drunk kills one person and goes to jail. And this is still common. For that rich white boy he not only had the privilege of being white but economic privilege as well.

You're conflating race with wealth there. Over here in California a rich black man murdered two people and got off scott free. Rich is the key, not wealth. Plenty of white people who aren't rich get drunk, kill one person, and then go to jail.

I have a friend he is a doctor and works at Jackson Memorial in Miami which is a very bad neighborhood. In 2015 he was pulled over 36 times because his car matched a reported stolen car, his colleague drives the same make and model and even color and he has never been puled over once the difference is my friend is black and his colleague is white. It is common enough to have a name driving while black.

People tend to look at things in a vacuum when that vacuum never exists. I don't know the area, but it's very possible that some of that is racist, but that much if it has to do with most crime in that area being done either by black people, or the amount of black crime vastly outweighing the white when it comes to auto theft.

I've noticed a pattern over the years. When black activists and others want to cry racism for the media, they rarely look at any possible reason other than skin color to base their claims on. They are unwilling to hear that there could be other legitimate reasons for what happened. In doing so, the remove any semblance of legitimacy from their claims. If they held an open mind and were willing to admit that some of the cases were not racism, but these ones over here are because of X, Y and Z, then I would be more willing give credence to their racism claims. As it stands, whenever they yell racism over a shooting, my initial response is "Here we go again. Another knee jerk racism reaction." It's only when non-black media gets involved and reveals things independent of black claims that show racism that I get on board, like the recent Chicago case.

I don't have white guilt because I personally have never done anything bad to anyone else but I do acknowledge that my race has done some pretty bad things.

Allowing minorities to have pride in where they came from, changing a few characters from white to a minority does not diminish me or hurt me in anyway.

Right. Pride is okay. Racism is not and those minorities involved with pride very often cross that line.

 

[Maxperson]

It is in our current context. Those who say they are proud white people are klan members and the likes. If you want to say you are a proud white person, well it is you who decides to be associated with them.

I'll prove that to be a lie right now. I am proud to be white. Huge numbers of people who are white live exemplary lives and do great things. Since I am not a klansman, racist, or anything remotely like one, your statement is wrong.

"institutional racism". Institutions are created and runned by people so institutions can be racist. Or sexist. Or homophobic...

Sure, but the justice system is not one of them. The laws created apply equally to everyone. The justice institution is not racist. People misusing it can be.

So attack those people and what they are saying when they cross that line. The idea behind Black Lives Matter isn't about racism against white people, so there is no need for you to opposite or attack it.

All lives matter, and people who are white and hispanic are also being gunned down by police.

Black Lives Matter has oppressed you personally?

And you like to accuse ME of Strawmen. I didn't call out black lives matter there.

So stop using words like "white pride" or suck up the criticism and stop complaining about something that is your responsability (using klan concepts).

The klan doesn't own the statement. If you want to be racist and accuse me of racism over something I am not associating myself with, that's on you. It's your fault and your racism.

Not really. Other people can associate you with stuff even if you do not want the association with it. If I see you driving a Gremlin I can associate you with other Gremlin drivers even if you do not want that association. People are free to make the associations they want like. You are free to deny it. But it is hard to deny you aren't a Gremlin driver when you drive one.

Actually, they can't. They can falsely claim association, but that's as far as it goes. If I have chosen to drive a Gremlin, then I have chosen to associate with other Gremlin drivers ONLY to the extent that we all drive that car. Any further association is incorrect and on you, unless of course I choose to associate further.

That means that the if I say I'm proud to be white, you can say, "Well, so have Nazis and aryan groups." That's the full extent that you can associate me, and you cannot associate me further and attribute their policies or beliefs to me. I have not chose to associate with those policies or beliefs. If you do so, you are racist.

 

[Maxperson]

Some grimsly stats compiled by the Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

The Washigton Post had a similar compilation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-year-end/

Thanks for yet another quote with no context!

 

[billd91]

The certificate was just one way to scream at the sitting President, not something that was about race. Unreasonable screams happen from the other party in this country.

Really? Really? You think the birthers would scream at Ted Cruz (who wasn't even born in the US)? Did birthers plague Hoover? I don't think so. And when someone tried to gin up controversy about Arthur possibly being born in Ireland or Canada, it went nowhere. Somehow, Obama is the only one...

 

[Maxperson]

Really? Really? You think the birthers would scream at Ted Cruz (who wasn't even born in the US)?

Uh, no. I think liberals would scream at Ted Cruz for not being born in the U.S. Both sides are very good at using the same tactics against each other. As I said, the liberals would also find many other reasons to scream at Ted Cruz as well. The screaming at Obama is happening over politics, not color.

Edit: In general. There are of course some racists who do scream at Obama about color. The birther movement isn't, though.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

I'll prove that to be a lie right now. I am proud to be white.

What is it about being white that you are proud of? I think this is the third time I've asked you, so I'm sure you'll ignore it again.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Uh, no. I think liberals would scream at Ted Cruz for not being born in the U.S.

They've had the opportunity- all they have asked is why the GOP pursued Obama and they haven't asked the same of Cruz. IOW, they have asked why the opposition has not been as dogged in asking of their own what they asked of the Democrats as an illustration of hypocrisy.

Not only that, the GOP raised nary a peep about his 2008 opponent John McCain, who was born in Panama. Not was the issue raised when Mitt Romney's Mexican-born dad George ran against Nixon.

Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona...but before it was granted statehood. The fuss about this rose only to a murmur.

Edit: In general. There are of course some racists who do scream at Obama about color. The birther movement isn't, though.

Really?

Instead of taking Hawaiian officials statements about Obama's birth certificate, some allegedly sent investigators, and claimed they had found bombshells....that never materialized in the press.

Instead of taking Hawaiian officials statements about Obama's birth certificate, they claimed the officials were lying about the date of Obama's birth, insisting that he was born before Hawaii achieved statehood.

Read the text of 8 USC § 1401- the law that defines who is a national or citizen under US law:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1401

You'll see that Obama clearly qualifies- regardless of birth location- since his mother (born in Kansas) was a natural born citizen of the USA who had lived most of her life within its boundaries, at least 5 years of which were consecutive.

Both the law in question and the fact of his mother's natural born citizenship are easily verifiable, and both were completely ignored by the Right.

How many GOP legislators are lawyers? Ted Cruz is DEFINITELY one- Harvard educated and a SCOTUS clerk to boot. How many lawyers and law students are on the staffs of GOP legislators? Yet they all either remained willfully silent on 8 USC § 1401 or fueled the birther fire.

And all- again- ignoring the fact that their own candidate at the time was born in Panama.

All those past opportunities to DQ past presidential candidates due to birth status, and the first to have the issue raised is the black candidate born in Hawaii to a Kansas-born mother?

The assertion that the birther movement was not started or sustained by racial animus doesn't even pass the laugh test.

 

[billd91]

The screaming at Obama is happening over politics, not color.

If it were just poitics, they'd be screaming about policy, about activities, and sometimes about social class and privilege. This is about his status as an American. How many white candidates have put up with that?

 

[Kramodlog]

I'll prove that to be a lie right now. I am proud to be white. Huge numbers of people who are white live exemplary lives and do great things. Since I am not a klansman, racist, or anything remotely like one, your statement is wrong.

I've talked to you for years and I've read your many take on undocumented immigrants, minorities and white pride. I have to say that I have doubts about that statement.

The laws created apply equally to everyone.

They aren't applied equaly and with the same severity. That is why the justice and penale systems in the US are called racist. The number of police officers who are freed after murdering black people is disgusting, while the number of black people who end up in jail for non-violent offenses is appalling. They are symptoms of everyday racism. That hard to get rid of racism. The one that makes you cross the street when you see black teens. The one makes you think black people who stay poor just do not work enough to improve their lot. The one that tells you that when protest in the streets they are just being racist against whites and ungrateful to be in the US instead of Africa.

All lives matter, and people who are white and hispanic are also being gunned down by police.

Your statement does not contradict what Black Lives Matter is denoucing.

I didn't call out black lives matter there.

You called it out many times. So, what has Black Lives Matter done to you specifically?

The klan doesn't own the statement.

It is very much tied to it. Neo-nazis, fascists and other white nationalists are too. Don't blame me for ruining it for you. Blame them.

Again, I'll ask. Why not just be proud of being USian or Irish or whatever?

Actually, they can't.

As long as there is free speech and independent thoughts, they can. It is because of those that you can protray Black Lives Matter in an innaccurate way and have no repercussions. Well, aside from people waving their virtual index in a disapproving fashion at you.