Fury over Black Hermione Granger

[Dannyalcatraz]

If it were just poitics, they'd be screaming about policy, about activities, and sometimes about social class and privilege. This is about his status as an American. How many white candidates have put up with that?

To be fair, SOME of the opposition to Obama is political, albeit largely of the toxic contrarian variety. Exhibit one is the ACA. Despite the fact that the ACA was conceived by a Republican think tank and has had a successful showing in the real world after it was enacted under a Republican governor, repeal of the ACA has been Job 1 (or at least, in the top 5) for the GOP since its inception.

My personal belief is that this example of contrarianism is more because it was proposed by a Democrat than that it was proposed by a black man.

 

[Lord Twig]

This conversation has devolved a bit, but I wanted to throw out my own opinion in on the original subject.

The Hermione Granger in the books was white. Now if they want to change the character and say that she is now black, that's fine. Just admit it is a change.

Nick Fury was changed in the Marvel movies, but everyone recognizes it was a change from the source material. Likewise with Ford Prefect in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Really the race of either character doesn't matter, so changing it is no big deal. It is also not a big deal changing Hermione, as it really doesn't matter to the story.

But as far as casting goes it still matters because Hermione's parents are going to have to be black as well. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense. Also one will need to be male and one female. Unless they also want to change it so that she has two mothers or fathers and she was adopted or was conceived invitro or... Well, it starts to get ridiculous. Just cast a black mom and dad and move on.

So no, you can't just "pick the best actor". I mean, Richard Harris is a good actor, but you aren't going to cast him as the red-headed 9-year-old girl Ginny Weasley. He made an excellent Dumbledore though.

One final note, Hermione was discriminated against because of her parentage. She was born from Muggle parents. In Muggle society she was a fairly well off (parents were both dentists) middle-class white girl. So she went from a society where she was part of the privileged race, to one where she was the oppressed minority. Whereas a black Hermione would go from one form of discrimination to another (racial and then magical). Still an interesting idea to explore, but different than the book.

Oh, and I have read all the books and watched all the movies.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The Hermione Granger in the books was white.

The author seems to disagree.

But as far as casting goes it still matters because Hermione's parents are going to have to be black as well.

Well, not BOTH of them.

So no, you can't just "pick the best actor".

"...for the role" is strongly implied by context.

 

[Lord Twig]

The author seems to disagree.

She can say whatever she wants. And she doesn't say that Hermione is black. Plus she was personally involved with the casting of the actors for the movies. This gets back to the point I was making. Don't lie and say she was always black. Just admit you are making a change. I'm willing to bet a lot of the opposition is simply because of the attempt to re-write history.

Well, not BOTH of them.

True. As long as there is some attempt to make them believable. For example, the casting of the Weasleys in the movies was brilliant. It was totally believable that they were a family.

"...for the role" is strongly implied by context.

Just wanted to make it clear.

I really have no problem with the casting, and I consider myself a fan. I'm not upset about it. She might make a great Hermione. I don't know her work, so I can't really say. Just be upfront about it.

 

[MechaPilot]

She can say whatever she wants. And she doesn't say that Hermione is black. Plus she was personally involved with the casting of the actors for the movies. This gets back to the point I was making. Don't lie and say she was always black. Just admit you are making a change. I'm willing to bet a lot of the opposition is simply because of the attempt to re-write history.

She didn't say Hermione was always black. She said that her race had never been defined. Also, casting for a movie doesn't change or establish a character's race for all future adaptations. The king of Siam in The King and I is not automatically whatever race Yule Brenner was just because that's who played him in film.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

She can say whatever she wants. And she doesn't say that Hermione is black. Plus she was personally involved with the casting of the actors for the movies. This gets back to the point I was making. Don't lie and say she was always black. Just admit you are making a change. I'm willing to bet a lot of the opposition is simply because of the attempt to re-write history.

Maybe if they took it as fiction, as i was meant to be taken, rather than as "history¹," they'd be able to enjoy it more and be less angry and not feel as if they've been personally assaulted?

[sblock=1]Or White history[/sblock]

 

[Cor Azer]

What is it about being white that you are proud of? I think this is the third time I've asked you, so I'm sure you'll ignore it again.

Of course, he won't. There has been at least one sentence since you asked the question, and well...

 

[Cor Azer]

She didn't say Hermione was always black. She said that her race had never been defined. Also, casting for a movie doesn't change or establish a character's race for all future adaptations. The king of Siam in The King and I is not automatically whatever race Yule Brenner was just because that's who played him in film.

Exactly. Hermione's race not being established in the books simple means that any adaptation shouldn't feel constrained to only look at white actresses. This is not saying that they *can't* use white actresses, simply that the only physical criteria for the actor/actress are:

- age-appropriate
- female-presenting
- and something weird/frizzy with her hair*

* I've never read the books. I seem to recall someone mentioning her hair being called out for something.

 

[Cor Azer]

The klan doesn't own the statement. If you want to be racist and accuse me of racism over something I am not associating myself with, that's on you. It's your fault and your racism.



Actually, they can't. They can falsely claim association, but that's as far as it goes. If I have chosen to drive a Gremlin, then I have chosen to associate with other Gremlin drivers ONLY to the extent that we all drive that car. Any further association is incorrect and on you, unless of course I choose to associate further.

That means that the if I say I'm proud to be white, you can say, "Well, so have Nazis and aryan groups." That's the full extent that you can associate me, and you cannot associate me further and attribute their policies or beliefs to me. I have not chose to associate with those policies or beliefs. If you do so, you are racist.

You can rail against this all you wish, but English-speaking society has settled into a general consensus that "white pride" means "white supremacy".

You can try to claim you're "taking it back", but I wouldn't suspect you'd get much support (except perhaps from racists trying to make their racism seem "ok"). I'm willing to be shown wrong, but I can't recall a single symbol/slogan that glorified oppressors ever being redeemed for general usage. There have been a few oppressive slurs that have been (or at last, were attempted to be) "taken back", such as the n-word for blacks and queer for LGBTAI+ communities.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Exactly. Hermione's race not being established in the books simple means that any adaptation shouldn't feel constrained to only look at white actresses. This is not saying that they *can't* use white actresses, simply that the only physical criteria for the actor/actress are:

- age-appropriate
- female-presenting
- and something weird/frizzy with her hair*

* I've never read the books. I seem to recall someone mentioning her hair being called out for something.

That's not even really a requirement. The hair and makeup people should be able to give any actor chosen for the role weird and frizzy hair of any color.