Fury over Black Hermione Granger

[Maxperson]

You're playing a game of false equivalencies. White people in the US are not only the ones in power, but they are also the majority. The majority in power in the US isn't saying white people are bad or inferior*, and they do not face institutional racism, like black people do. Saying your proud to be black or homosexual is pushing up. It is to fight injustice. Saying you're proud to be white is rubbing it in. Pushing down.

This is irrelevant. Racism is still leveled by minorities against white people constantly and they are given a pass on it, which is the height of hypocrisy. Majority and minority don't matter when it comes to who is being racist to who. Racism is racism is racism and it's ALL bad.

You aren't standing up to anything or anyone when you say you are proud to be white.

Pride doesn't require that. I can be proud to be X without standing up to someone.

There are reasons why for the last two hundred years, those have proclaimed themselves to be proud whites are klan members, white supremacist and other fascists. It ain't because white folks are oppressed.

It's you who is playing at a False Equivalence. I'm not a Klan member or supremacist. If I declare that I am proud to be white, it has nothing to do with those things and is not even remotely equivalent. Any attempt to connect my being proud to be white to those things is racist on its face and shame on the person doing it.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

If I declare that I am proud to be white

So, out of curiosity, what is it about being White that you are proud of?

 

[Kramodlog]

This is irrelevant.

It is relevant. Saying you're proud to be black when a lot of people say that being black is bad or are inferior is not racist. It means you're just as good as other people. Like homosexuals who say they are proud to be gay doesn't mean they think they are better than heterosexuals. Black Lives Matter means that black lives matter as much as other lives, not that they are better.

Racism is still leveled by minorities against white people constantly and they are given a pass on it, which is the height of hypocrisy. Majority and minority don't matter when it comes to who is being racist to who. Racism is racism is racism and it's ALL bad.

Yes, racism is all bad, but minorities aren't in power and are... the minority. So white people do not face the same quantity and quality of racism. The justice system in the US is slanted against black people, not white people. This is why the focus is on black people when people are talking about institutionalized racism. Racism against whites isn't part of many discussions not because it isn't bad or doesn't exist, but because it is a marginal phenomenon that doesn't gimp a white person's chances in the US.

If your black it is harder to find a job, to find housing, to not be arrested randomly by the police, etc. It is hard for a you to find a job? I have no dought about it. But it is easier than if you were black.

Pride doesn't require that.

But the pride you denounce and say that white people should be able to immitate is a that sort of pride. A pride that resist oppression.

White supremacist have been saying for two hundred years that white people are being oppressed. That is a lie. I'm sure you're thinking that it wasn't the case two hundred years ago, but for the last 50 years, white people are being oppressed and white pride is totally justified because of that. It isn't the case. White people, men, have indeed lost power in the last 50 years, but it was ill gotten power that they never should of had in the first place. Losing that power isn't oppression. It is justice.

It's you who is playing at a False Equivalence. I'm not a Klan member or supremacist.

Hello, strawman. Tell me other things I didn't say about you!

If I declare that I am proud to be white, it has nothing to do with those things and is not even remotely equivalent.

Whether you like it or not, by talking about white pride you are associated with white supremacists. Do not blame me for that. It is that way and frankly, I find nothing wrong with that association. You could blame immigrants and minorites for white pride to be associated with racism, you're good at that. Or be proud to be white!... and associated with racists. I do not care.

 

[Guest 85555]

A White Pride parade would be denounced as racist if they marched just for being proud to be white. The hypocrisy the country has when dealing with racism is phenomenal.

You can thank the racists who have tainted that concept though. You know this wouldn't be the case if the only White Pride rallies ever weren't always done by skinheads and neo-nazi groups. There is a valid reason why this is strongly associated with racism. On the other hand, if you were to hold an Irish Pride, English Pride, Italian Pride or French Pride rally no one would care. People don't care if you are proud of your ethnic heritage (whatever it is) but they would naturally be a little suspicious if you go around talking about white pride. Every single time I've ever seen White Pride anything in my 39 years, it has always been from a group who believes in White Supremacy. Always. I've never once seen someone bring up white pride who didn't then go on to eventually say terribly racist things.

Personally I don't really know what white pride could mean otherwise (I don't really feel like I am part of a broader tribe of white people, and don't feel like I share a culture with people on the basis of their whiteness....I do feel some connections to Italians and Jews, because of ethnicity and culture, but not to some abstract notion of being white).

I am not a big fan of online social justice stuff, and I think people are way to fast to dog pile or shame folks for raising discordant points of view. But this seems like an area where if you grew up in the US, you should understand why its a taboo. Maybe in thirty years it won't be. But if you told me tomorrow you were holding a white pride parade, I'd pretty much assume it is because you are a racist (and that wouldn't be a crazy conclusion to draw at all based on what a white pride parade usually entails).

 

[fba827]

( I have not read any of this thread aside from the OP, so I am answering to that OP specifically )

In my opinion, the setting in which potter takes place does not have any racial relevance... That is to say, there aren't racial slurs or comments of a race being oppressed. For this reason, in the potter universe, I don't find the race of that character ( or any character) to be relevant.

If it had been set somewhere else where race did show relevance then I might have an issue with it depending on the specifics.

Just my opinion anyway

 

[tomBitonti]

Well, race, as black, white, or whatever, doesn't seem to matter, but other races do. Half-giant, house elf, mudblood, whatever are the bank creatures, matters.

Thx!
TomB

 

[Maxperson]

Saying you're proud to be black when a lot of people say that being black is bad or are inferior is not racist. It means you're just as good as other people.

Saying you're proud to be white when nobody is saying you're inferior is not racist, either. People are allowed to take pride in themselves. You don't need to be some sort of underdog to do so.

Yes, racism is all bad, but minorities aren't in power and are... the minority. So white people do not face the same quantity and quality of racism. The justice system in the US is slanted against black people, not white people. This is why the focus is on black people when people are talking about institutionalized racism.

The justice system is not slanted against anyone. Everyone is supposed to be treated the exact same way. It's some of the people involved in running the justice system that are the problem. A failure to implement a system properly is a people problem, not a system problem.

Racism against whites isn't part of many discussions not because it isn't bad or doesn't exist, but because it is a marginal phenomenon that doesn't gimp a white person's chances in the US.

It absolutely exists. I've experience it from both hispanics and black people I've interacted with. I can't tell you how often a stranger of one of those minorities has acted and treated me like a racist based on nothing more than my skin color. That's blatant racism on their part.

But the pride you denounce and say that white people should be able to immitate is a that sort of pride. A pride that resist oppression.

I don't mind resisting oppression. Oppression should very much be resisted. However, many take it well beyond resistance and tread deep into racism based on prior experiences. I'm not a part of any racism they experienced, so they have no business taking out that frustration on me.

[quote[White supremacist have been saying for two hundred years that white people are being oppressed. That is a lie. I'm sure you're thinking that it wasn't the case two hundred years ago, but for the last 50 years, white people are being oppressed and white pride is totally justified because of that. It isn't the case. White people, men, have indeed lost power in the last 50 years, but it was ill gotten power that they never should of had in the first place. Losing that power isn't oppression. It is justice.[/quote]

I don't care what they have been saying. They are not me and are not connected to me.

Whether you like it or not, by talking about white pride you are associated with white supremacists.

No I'm not. I can only be associated with things I associate myself with. If someone with my name commits a mass murder, I'm not associated with that, either.

Do not blame me for that. It is that way and frankly, I find nothing wrong with that association.

If you associate me with it, it's your fault and I have every right to blame you for it.

 

[Maxperson]

You can thank the racists who have tainted that concept though. You know this wouldn't be the case if the only White Pride rallies ever weren't always done by skinheads and neo-nazi groups. There is a valid reason why this is strongly associated with racism. On the other hand, if you were to hold an Irish Pride, English Pride, Italian Pride or French Pride rally no one would care. People don't care if you are proud of your ethnic heritage (whatever it is) but they would naturally be a little suspicious if you go around talking about white pride. Every single time I've ever seen White Pride anything in my 39 years, it has always been from a group who believes in White Supremacy. Always. I've never once seen someone bring up white pride who didn't then go on to eventually say terribly racist things.

The reason for that is that nobody would believe anyone else he tried to have a white pride rally that wasn't racist. They'd be instantly villainized as racists and so nobody does it other than the racists.

Personally I don't really know what white pride could mean otherwise (I don't really feel like I am part of a broader tribe of white people, and don't feel like I share a culture with people on the basis of their whiteness....I do feel some connections to Italians and Jews, because of ethnicity and culture, but not to some abstract notion of being white).

A sense of pride in who you are that includes skin color. Many people don't even know their ethnicity anymore. Bloodlines are very, very mixed these days.

 

[Maxperson]

Well, race, as black, white, or whatever, doesn't seem to matter, but other races do. Half-giant, house elf, mudblood, whatever are the bank creatures, matters.

Thx!
TomB

The bank was run by goblins. Those filthy creatures.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

The reason for that is that nobody would believe anyone else he tried to have a white pride rally that wasn't racist. They'd be instantly villainized as racists and so nobody does it other than the racists.

So what is it about being White that you're proud of?

Many people don't even know their ethnicity anymore. Bloodlines are very, very mixed these days.

Is that a problem?