Fury over Black Hermione Granger

[Ryujin]

Although to be fair, my understanding is that self-defense is an affirmative defense - which means you need to prove you were *actually* in danger, not just *think* you're in danger.

In their legal system, as in ours, you have to show that you had a good faith belief that your life was in danger. It doesn't require the actuality. The idea of this doesn't really bother me until you get into situations in which people manufacture the 'danger' to themselves as with the officer who shot Tamir Rice, and the Trayvon Martin incident.

 

[Maxperson]

In their legal system, as in ours, you have to show that you had a good faith belief that your life was in danger. It doesn't require the actuality. The idea of this doesn't really bother me until you get into situations in which people manufacture the 'danger' to themselves as with the officer who shot Tamir Rice, and the Trayvon Martin incident.

Tamir Rice was very different from Trayvon Martin. The officers involved with Rice made a bad decision and got too close. Once there, though, the perceived danger was real and not something intended to happen in order to shoot someone. With Trayvon Martin, Zimmeran went looking for someone to get involved with and shoot because he was in "danger".

 

[Cor Azer]

In their legal system, as in ours, you have to show that you had a good faith belief that your life was in danger. It doesn't require the actuality. The idea of this doesn't really bother me until you get into situations in which people manufacture the 'danger' to themselves as with the officer who shot Tamir Rice, and the Trayvon Martin incident.

That's why I'm a programmer and not a law-talking-guy!

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Tamir Rice was very different from Trayvon Martin. The officers involved with Rice made a bad decision and got too close. Once there, though, the perceived danger was real and not something intended to happen in order to shoot someone. With Trayvon Martin, Zimmeran went looking for someone to get involved with and shoot because he was in "danger".

The perceived danger was real? Hardly. The perceived danger was not real. That the cop did not recognize the danger was not real, as the gun was fake, or thought it was real, can be argued. The perceived danger actually being "real?" Nah. It wasn't.

 

[tomBitonti]

In their legal system, as in ours, you have to show that you had a good faith belief that your life was in danger. It doesn't require the actuality. The idea of this doesn't really bother me until you get into situations in which people manufacture the 'danger' to themselves as with the officer who shot Tamir Rice, and the Trayvon Martin incident.

I thought the standard was somewhat more complicated: Not just danger, but danger of severe bodily harm. And simple belief is not sufficient: A standard of reasonableness applies.

That's what I've gathered as a non-lawyer doing some reading, so I could be off, a little, or a lot. I'm presenting my best understanding.

Thx!
TomB

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Depends on the jurisdiction, but essentially correct.

 

[Maxperson]

The perceived danger was real? Hardly. The perceived danger was not real. That the cop did not recognize the danger was not real, as the gun was fake, or thought it was real, can be argued. The perceived danger actually being "real?" Nah. It wasn't.

You're right. That was a misspeak in typing haste. I had meant to say that the perceived danger was real as far as the cops knew.

 

[Maxperson]

I thought the standard was somewhat more complicated: Not just danger, but danger of severe bodily harm. And simple belief is not sufficient: A standard of reasonableness applies.

That's what I've gathered as a non-lawyer doing some reading, so I could be off, a little, or a lot. I'm presenting my best understanding.

Thx!
TomB

Yeah. It can be tough to determine whether that belief was reasonable, though. With Tamir Rice, he was reaching for his waste band for the gun that the cops did not know was fake. That's more than reasonable to generate a fear for your life. If I remember correctly, one of the people who called in the gun report said that the gun might be fake, but that part was not told to the officers on the way. Rice was a very unfortunate series of mistakes, unlike like Trayvon Martin, where I firmly believe that Zimmerman was putting himself in position to be able to "claim" fear for his life in order to shoot someone.

 

[Ryujin]

That's why I'm a programmer and not a law-talking-guy!

And I'm a desktop support guy

 

[Kramodlog]

A White Pride parade would be denounced as racist if they marched just for being proud to be white. The hypocrisy the country has when dealing with racism is phenomenal.

You're playing a game of false equivalencies. White people in the US are not only the ones in power, but they are also the majority. The majority in power in the US isn't saying white people are bad or inferior*, and they do not face institutional racism, like black people do. Saying your proud to be black or homosexual is pushing up. It is to fight injustice. Saying you're proud to be white is rubbing it in. Pushing down.

You aren't standing up to anything or anyone when you say you are proud to be white. There are reasons why for the last two hundred years, those have proclaimed themselves to be proud whites are klan members, white supremacist and other fascists. It ain't because white folks are oppressed.


*Sure, you'll be able to find anecdotes to say I'm wrong, but anecdotes do not invalidate my statement.