Fury over Black Hermione Granger

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

I ask because I've met and know a lot of people of color who have been raised to, and firmly believe that white people are the root of all their problems as a whole. It's literally instilled into them from childhood. So I know some people think it's true.

I've met White people that are exactly the same and believe it's the Blacks and the Jews and the Mexicans that are the cause of their problems rather than themselves. So what if some people believe it? Does it make it true for everyone? You can't deny that there are racist White people¹. Does some White people being racist mean that all White people are racist? Hardly. It is insulting to think so, don't you agree? Well, it's also insulting to generalize the way you are doing. Bad form.

[sblock=1]Well, you can... or someone else can, but that would just be ridiculous and a lie.[/sblock]

 

[Neonchameleon]

If the white man suddenly vanished from the world, would all of the current minorities problems be solved? I only ask because apparently whitey is the devil in everyones eyes.

Well there's a strawman and a half! No, not all the problems of the world are the responsibility of white men. Just a lot of them - in large part because white men have been on top for a long time. And in this thread no one is saying what you are accusing them of.

I am 110% all for EVERYONE having perfect equality regardless of gender, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation.

I read that on one hand. I read on the other you claim "The truth of the matter is reverse racism is a bigger problem than the perceived presence of racism from whites." If you actually meant that reverse racism was worse than the existing racism in the United States then at best you are extremely blinkered - and even if you didn't the two statements are in extreme tension.

What I am not for are people blaming me, even if it's indirectly, because of the color of my skin, for offenses I took no part in. If you want me to treat you fairly and with respect, DO NOT insult me by blaming me for things I had no part in.

As far as I know you are only personally being blamed for spreading the nonsense that reverse racism is a bigger problem than the real and actual racism that gets people killed and imprisoned. Your own words are something that you, Valador, have a part in. They are also spreading memes that are (a) untrue, (b) an attempt to deny actual racism. Which means that your words, Valador, are providing a cover for racism and can only come from someone who is extremely blinkered, only looking at the minor hurts they are receiving.

All I'm saying is that society has made it acceptable to be racist against white people yet condemns it if it's the other way around. All racism, from both sides, should be handled the same. How about that as a first step towards equality.

Personally, as a first step towards equality, I'd suggest actual practical measures. Like normalising the way e.g. drug offences are handled to change the fact that although actual rates of drug taking and possession are slightly higher among white guys, the incarceration rate is massively higher amongst black guys. (In pre-riot Ferguson, 92% of stop-and-search searches were on black people (67% of the population is black) - but the rate of finding contraband was 50% higher on white people)

As a first step I'd deal with things you can measure. And the impact of the law. Getting your feelings hurt by a few harsh comments is something that's happened to me a few times. But I don't go out there and claim that it's worse than real racism that ruins lives.

Also the media only promotes more racism. If a black cop shoots a white kid it's never labeled the same as if a white cop shoots a black kid.

OK. Most police shooting incidents in any direction aren't dealt with at all. They have to be pretty egregious in the US.

The reason Ferguson erupted was only tangentally to do with Michael Brown getting shot. It was simply the inciting incident.

The reason Ferguson erupted was due to the systematic oppression of the population by a police force I can only describe as paramilitary. A police force that carried more firepower and behaved with its weapons more aggressively than soldiers in Iraq. A police force that paid not just for itself but for 20% of the entire municipal budget from fines (and before you say "They must have done something to be fined" you might want to get your head round Civil Asset Forfeiture).

Michael Brown being shot down was just the straw that broke the camel's back. There is a lot going on and most of it is terrible.

Now I'm white. I'm glad I don't have to deal with most of that crap - and glad that I live in a country where the police don't normally carry guns. And the US militarised police terrify me. (It's not that our police are notably less racist - but not carrying guns and not having for profit prisons means the impact is lower).

The media always makes it a point to emphasize the fact that the white person killed the black person and that their skin color is important some how. However if a black guy kills a white guy it's simply "a guy killed a guy."

You mean when a white guy shoots up a school, a church, or a Planned Parenthood, the media makes a point to emphasise the fact that the white guy was a lone wolf and you shouldn't look at anyone else? That sort of difference?

 

[Maxperson]

What you're doing is interpreting the books, just like the casting director did when she cast Emma Watson. While Rowling may have explicitly described a character as black, that does not mean that not describing Hermione's race establishes her as White. As Rowling said, Hermione's race was never explicitly described. You're free to interpret the books as you'd like, but hat doesn't mean because you believe Hermione is White that she is actually "established" as White.

Rowling was right there with the casting director and had tremendous influence on who got the roles. It was not the casting director alone who cast Emma Watson.

 

[Maxperson]

To summon an analogy from late night TV, saying 'All Lives Matter' should replace 'Black Lives Matter' is akin to saying 'All legs should be mended' instead of 'My leg should be mended' when I have a broken leg. Yes, all legs should be mended, but at this moment in time, mine is the one that is broken.

Yes, all lives are important, but at this moment in time, black lives are the ones in more peril.

It's not even close. I suppose all of the white kids killed by police aren't broken? All the hispanic ones killed by police can go to hell? Singling out black lives is racist as it puts black lost lives ahead of all other lost lives on the basis of color.

 

[Maxperson]

I'll make an analogy with Gay Pride. Gay pride parades and homosexuals saying they are proud to be homosexuals aren't saying they are better than heterosexuals. They are saying they are proud of who they are in spite of people who say homosexuals are bad or inferior.

A White Pride parade would be denounced as racist if they marched just for being proud to be white. The hypocrisy the country has when dealing with racism is phenomenal.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah. "Black Lives Matter" is a slogan which is short for "black lives matter just as much as white lives, so please stop shooting black people". It is not short for "Only black lives matter". A good way to explain it is to say that the phrase means "Black lives matter too".

A quick google search didn't show that full slogan at all. Just "Black Lives Matter." If they really wanted it to mean that, All Lives Matter would have been a much better way to say it. Can you provide a link to that full slogan? I've only ever seen them talking about black lives mattering and not a word from any of them on other lives.

 

[Maxperson]

Nope. Black Lives Matter was called Black Lives Matter because it was and is black people being gunned down by police. Almost no one disuputes that White Lives Matter in America. But when the police gun down a twelve year old with a toy gun it is in doubt whether Black Lives Matter in America.

You do realize that white, hispanic, asian, indian, and insert other race than black here are also being gunned down by police, right? You also realize that a toy gun can't always be ascertained to be a toy before you shoot the one reaching for the gun, right? Officers aren't required to allow themselves to be killed on the off chance that this time the gun is a toy. Most of the time the gun is real.

 

[Cor Azer]

It's not even close. I suppose all of the white kids killed by police aren't broken? All the hispanic ones killed by police can go to hell? Singling out black lives is racist as it puts black lost lives ahead of all other lost lives on the basis of color.

Uh... no.

Nobody is singling out black lives as being the only ones that matter. As Morrus says, the slogan means "Black lives are as important as everyone else's".

People are being killed solely for being black.

People are being killed solely for being trans.

Can you show me how trumpeting #AllLivesMatter is helping prevent those two types of murders? Because if it's not helping, then it's at best a hypocritical slogan because it's adherents are not actually caring about all lives, and at worse it's blatantly harmful and pulls resources (time, money, attention) away from people who are trying to prevent black and trans people from being killed simply for being black and trans.

 

[Maxperson]

Uh... no.

Nobody is singling out black lives as being the only ones that matter. As Morrus says, the slogan means "Black lives are as important as everyone else's".

People are being killed solely for being black.

People are being killed solely for being trans.

Can you show me how trumpeting #AllLivesMatter is helping prevent those two types of murders? Because if it's not helping, then it's at best a hypocritical slogan because it's adherents are not actually caring about all lives, and at worse it's blatantly harmful and pulls resources (time, money, attention) away from people who are trying to prevent black and trans people from being killed simply for being black and trans.

Those two types are not any more important than any other type of murder.

Also, most of the killings are justified. Not all, but most. These kids, black, white and otherwise are acting in stupid ways that could cause cops to be killed if they didn't react quickly and decisively. 20/20 hindsight doesn't change a valid act into a racist one.

 

[Cor Azer]

A White Pride parade would be denounced as racist if they marched just for being proud to be white. The hypocrisy the country has when dealing with racism is phenomenal.

For white people to face racism, there needs to be a threat of actual oppression. No other racial group in the US can assert the collective power to oppress the lives of white people in general.