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gambling and alignment

Arnwyn

First Post
Thornir Alekeg said:
Oops, I'm probably opening up that whole detect good/evil can of worms again... :D
Yes, yes you are. ;)
I agree that rules-wise there is no correllation between gambling and alignment, but what if your character follows a strict fundamentalist religion defining gambling as an evil act, along with drinking etc. Would everyone in a bar or casino detect as evil to a cleric of that religion?
No. As I said above, IMC there is no correlation between gambling and alignment. Thus, the problem is with the character and religion, not gambling itself.

Therefore, regardless of whether the fundamentalist religion defines gambling as an evil act (which, I will note, would never happen IMC), it would not detect as evil with the spell because (again, IMC) it's not evil.

(Again, I can only say what would happen in my particular campaign - no one else's.)
 

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Nifft

Penguin Herder
IMO, Gambling is a vice only because:
1) it is unproductive;
2) it is prone to abuse by organized crime; and
3) trusting Luck instead of Grace, Hard Work and Visible Sainthood is denying the Calvinist doctrine of pre-destination.

So, for those religions which subscribe to that particular Doctrine, it's sinful. D&D has churches with Luck as a Domain, though -- very non-Calvinist. So, I think we should ignore point 3 for the purpose of this discussion.

What's left are two specific non-philosophical traits, by which you can examine whether an instance of gambling is evil or not.

1) Productivity: Is this gambling interfering with the gambler's productivity? In other words, is it taking place during leisure time, or when he should be working? (The same can go for drinking, to a degree.)

2) Funding Organized Crime: Is this gambling act supporting organized crime (or any other Evil organization)? If so, it's Evil (by mistake perhaps, and easy to Atone for, but still Evil).

-- N
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
In D&D, "good" and "evil" are defined mostly in terms of pain, suffering, and harm done to others. Does gambling cause such? In most cases, no. Neither does it generally alleviate suffering. That leaves it pretty neutral.

You might have an argument that gambling is a touch on the Chaotic side, but I don't see how it is Good or Evil in teh D&D sense of the words.
 

Wicht

Hero
This would be my take on the subject, admittedly adapted from a compilation of my real world views and the needs of the game.

Gambling is first of all an activity that is ripe for corruption and illicit involvement by criminal elements. Large scale gambling more so than small scale gambling. Therefore when large scale gambling is seen in game (lotteries, races, contests, casinos, etc.) then there is a good chance that it is supported by some sort of corrupt or evil society (thieves guild, church of vice, etc.). PCs who get involved in such activities may find themselves caught up in these elements.

The moral argument against gambling (both large and small scale) is that it involves taking money from one participant and giving it to another. You only gain by someone else losing. This may or may not violate certain religious strictures. A good aligned church which is more focused on fighting and killing evil creatures may have no real problem with an occassional toss of the dice. A good aligned church focused on honesty, fighting poverty, family values and the like may have real problems with any gambling.

In Kalamar, my campaign world of choice, I would guess that if I was to introduce the subject of gambling, The Home Foundation (a church focused on family), The Courts of Justice (church focused on law and order and fighting crime), The Church of Life’s Fire (church for farmers) would be some good churches generally opposed to gambling. On the other hand The Temple of Stars (church of travelers) might be a goodl aligned church with no problem with it while other good churches probably are fairly neutral on the subject. On the other hand, The neutral churches of both the Mathmaster and the Strategist might see some value in trying to win a game of chance through strategy and the Evil churches of the Vicelord and the Battlerager would actively encourage gambling because it perfectly fits their tenets.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Wicht said:
Gambling is first of all an activity that is ripe for corruption and illicit involvement by criminal elements.

Is that really the case for all gambling, or only for illegal gambling? I don't see as legal gambling is any more ripe for criminal exploitation than any other activity that deals with large wads of money.
 


the Jester

Legend
Evil? Hardly. I would say that gambling prolly falls under 'chaotic' though, and many strict doctrinarian religions might lump chaos and evil together.
 

welby

First Post
Wouldn't it depend on your character's view of gambling? If he doesn't see it as wrong, then it probably isn't for him.

Alignment isn't about making people into cookie cutters, behaving a predictable way in every situation. It's about finding your own code, and following it.
 

diaglo

Adventurer
the Jester said:
Evil? Hardly. I would say that gambling prolly falls under 'chaotic' though, and many strict doctrinarian religions might lump chaos and evil together.

or they might be playing the One true game. OD&D(1974) :D
 


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