Game Balance: possible without magic items?

[Emirikol]

All:

We were discussing at our game last night if a high level D&D campaign is even possible without tons of magical items. Is the game still fun and balanced without magic items at high levels (e.g. 12+)?

The reason I bring this up is our Hyboria campaign has virtually no magical items (but no DR creatures either). How well will the classes be balanced above 7th level?


Em

 

[Joseph Elric Smith]

it is possible but the Dm has to be able to accurately judge the challenges for the party and possibly make certain changes in regard to Damage reduction.
ken

 

[Piratecat]

It's not the challenges that are a problem, I think; a competent DM can adjust those, removing DR and the like, pretty easily. ACs would need to be adjusted downwards as well.

The problem may come in balancing fighters and rangers off against wizards. Game balance between classes is predicated on the warriors having magical weapons, and without those they'd have trouble matching the wizards' capacity for damage-doing.

Note that an enterprising cleric or two in the group could change this. Buff spells can help a fighter-type an immense amount, and put them back on a more-or-less even basis.

 

[Angcuru]

No magic Items? In that case you'd have to get rid of all the mages, since a HUGE part of magery is the enchanting of weapons, armor, etc., and removing that would make them a lot less....magelike.

 

[Emirikol]

"Virtually no magic items."

The sorcerers and wizards of Hyboria (like the books) have absolutely no interest in forging things for other people. They do magic for ther simple fact that they WIELD POWER ITSELF!

Now, Thulsa Doom may claim that charismatic control over people is more powerful than magic..but that is debateable...

Do fighters really need magical swords and armor to be as powerful as a wizard?


EM




.

 

[Piratecat]

No magic Items? In that case you'd have to get rid of all the mages, since a HUGE part of magery is the enchanting of weapons, armor, etc., and removing that would make them a lot less....magelike.

I couldn't disagree more. Very few magic items were made in 1e and 2e, and those magic-users and mages were plenty wizard-like. I think the problem is one of game balance, not game feel.

 

[Angcuru]

Well, you are you and I am me . But on the other hand, removal of magic items DOES bring back the age-old stories of all these warriors fearing the Wizard types.

If you're going to do this at least make a big list of all the non-magic enhancements that can be made. I.E. Masterwork, Mighty, Elven Masterwork, Serrated, ETC.

 

[Wormwood]

Well, you are you and I am me . But on the other hand, removal of magic items DOES bring back the age-old stories of all these warriors fearing the Wizard types.

Unfortunately, it could also lead to brand-new stories of players getting very grumpy when the party spellcasters dominate the game.

 

[Endur]

Balance between Fighters + Mages

I think balance can be ok without magic items.

However, it all depends on your GM and the adventures.

Fighters shine in an environment where you have multiple encounters in a day that last multiple rounds. They get to swing every round, and so long as they don't run out of hit points, their combat ability remains the same.

Wizards (under 3e D&D) shine in an environment where you have one or two combats a day, and they can unleash their big spells to decide the combat. If you have more than two big combats in a day, the wizards start running low on high level spells and take a back seat to the fighters. That back seat may also come up if a particular combat has an opponent that can't be affected by the wizard (SR, immune to magic/enchantment/fire, etc.)

Imagine a party with a 8th level wizard specialized in illusion. That 8th level wizard, in addition to his illusion spells, might also have memorized: confusion, Evard's Black Tentacles, suggestion, fly, haste, greater magic weapon, color spray, hyptnotic pattern, glitterdust, Fox's Cunning, Cat's Grace, etc. That might be sufficient spells to dominate two or more big combats in a single day. (spells based on what I remember from a game last weeK).

Personally, as a GM, I would enforce the component rules for spell casting in a game without magic items. i.e. the Wizard doesn't have a HHH anymore, so he can't draw his spell components as a free action, and I'd make the wizard spend a move equivalent or a full action pulling out his components (depending on where he keeps the components, belt or backpack).

Tom

 

[Thresher]

The "Slaine" D20 system seems to hold up ok with a low magic environment and the 'wizardly' types are very very much different to what you would be used to in D&D.

But like someone else said, if you dont take the nerf bat to the casters then the melee will need reinforcing considerably.