Game spy interview with Christopher Perkins

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Sweet, I get played by Chow Yun-Fat.

Honestly, everyone should be.

Instead of white hats for good guys, we just get everyone cool played by Chow Yun-Fat.

The non-cool will be divided into two camps:

1.) Those who have been tragically mutilated by Chow Yun-Fat such that he feels a bit bad about it and occasionally brings them flowers in a way that makes them feel better but produces no recognition for themselves on Chow's role in their new diminished life.

2.) Those who will be or have been required by the rules of the game to pirouette like the most graceful of Barishnikov's into the trajectory of Chow's righteosness burdened fury bullets.



The application of this system to 4E needs, I believe, no further explication.

 

[Irda Ranger]

We know that players enjoy the experience of "leveling up," provided it's not onerous, and so we've built a system that allows them to level up more often. We didn't want players to have to "level up" their characters every session because that would get onerous; doing so every two or three sessions seemed more appropriate and palatable, and that's how the new system is currently built.

...

The way character advancement works now, it takes fewer encounters to gain a level, but it takes roughly the same length of time to reach 30 levels in 4th Edition as it takes to reach 20 levels in 3rd Edition. The rate of level advancement is still being playtested, however, so the jury's still out on whether the final game will work this way.

I'm not sure which 'players' he's talking about here, or where he got the idea that leveling up three times while clearing a 10 encounter dungeon is a good idea, but clearly I am not the (in the least) the intended target of these thoughts.

Are there people who seriously thought they were leveling too slowing in 3.x RAW? Do you have no attention span whatsoever?

Well it was bound to happen. There was no way I was going to like every change about 4e. I hope this is the worst of it.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Are there people who seriously thought they were leveling too slowing in 3.x RAW? Do you have no attention span whatsoever?

I love it. Why? I on average have one combat a session in my campaigns, maybe two.

I also have long non-adventuring rp time and stuff.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Christopher Perkins: We know that players enjoy the experience of "leveling up," provided it's not onerous, and so we've built a system that allows them to level up more often. We didn't want players to have to "level up" their characters every session because that would get onerous; doing so every two or three sessions seemed more appropriate and palatable, and that's how the new system is currently built.

GameSpy: Has the road to the endgame been lengthened, level-wise, or is there a new upper limit to how powerful D&D characters will get? For example, will a level 30 character in 4th Edition be as strong as a level 20 in 3.5, or is a level 20 character in 4th Edition about as strong as an epic-level character in previous editions?

Christopher Perkins: The way character advancement works now, it takes fewer encounters to gain a level, but it takes roughly the same length of time to reach 30 levels in 4th Edition as it takes to reach 20 levels in 3rd Edition. The rate of level advancement is still being playtested, however, so the jury's still out on whether the final game will work this way.

How long and how many encounters are they assuming in a session? 'Cause let me tell you, gaining a level every 13.33 encounters in 3E is too fast. 30 levels in the time it takes to do 20 in 3E? Unacceptable unless the power levels are scaled so that 30 4E = 20 3E.

I was halving XP and treasure as is in 3E. "Extending the sweet spot" of play is nice and all, but it doesn't help if the rate of advancement is so fast that you still blow right through it.

On an encounter-based model, I'd like to see 18-20 encounters per level. If the game allows encounters to run faster (which has been advertised) then we should be able to get in more encounters in each session (of all types, not just combat). So if streamlining works, they need to slow advancement rate, in my opinion.

Color me displeased with this information.

 

[Baumi]

or where he got the idea that leveling up three times while clearing a 10 encounter dungeon is a good idea

Where did you get this from? He talks about 2-3 Session until you Level up, which is not a big increase (usually 3-4 Sessions in my Experience) especially if you take into account that you will do far more per Session now (quicker play and more monsters per Fight).

Anyway, as it was said before, you can easily level up at the pace that you see fit, especially if magic Items are no longer that important (need more Wands/Scrolls per Level if you take longer) and that XP no longer decreases. My group even ignore XP in one of my Campaigns and level up when the GM feel that it is appropriate.

 

[delericho]

Let's see...

In the current edition, the game is designed so you would expect 13.33 encounters per level. An Adventure Path type campaign running from 1st to 20th level would therefore average 253.27 encounters (13.33 x 19).

In 4th Edition, the same length of campaign should run from 1st to 30th level, leading to an average of 8.73 encounters per level (253.27 / 29). Although, we can probably expect encounters to run somewhat faster in the new edition, so perhaps it's more like 9 or even 10 encounters per level.

But then, the real rate of advancement in 3.5 is actually closer to 10 encounters per level. After 4e has been about for a while, we can expect much the same to happen. So, a level every 6 - 7 encounters?

Oh, and not only does it take only 2/3rds as long to get to level 20, characters of level 20 are also more powerful than their counterparts in the current edition.

Yeah, that seems like a startling increase in power to me...

Now, whether that's actually a bad thing or not is very much open to debate. Amongst other things, it will depend on how easy it is to alter the rate of advancement in the new system, and also how much fun it actually is to play at those new Epic levels.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The trouble with halving XP gain is characters end up treasure heavy, unless you cut that in half too. Which makes for boring looting and underequipped NPC's.

There were definitely times during the 3.x campaign I ran that levelling seemed to be happening a bit too fast, though.

I am not sure how well this works out, but maybe one put more equipment in adventures that has limited charges - scrolls, potions, wands. These will be used up during the "extra encounters" you have because you level more slowly.

 

[delericho]

I am not sure how well this works out, but maybe one put more equipment in adventures that has limited charges - scrolls, potions, wands. These will be used up during the "extra encounters" you have because you level more slowly.

Additionally, if you reduce the 'resale value' of looted equipment, this cuts down on party wealth acquisition without affecting NPC gear.

 

[Horacio]

Are there people who seriously thought they were leveling too slowing in 3.x RAW?

Me! I exist, at least I think (and if I think, I exist, don't I?)

Do you have no attention span whatsoever?

Hey, you don't need to insult me!

Oh, look, a butterfly!

Oh... what was I talking about?

Well it was bound to happen. There was no way I was going to like every change about 4e. I hope this is the worst of it.

Well, now we are even, I detested the Windows-only D&D Insider

 

[Intrope]

I'm hoping that 14 is the new 30, and the world-breaking(*) spells like Raise Dead, Plane Shift and Teleport are moved up to epic levels where they belong.

(*) World-breaking because they make a campaign become far less real to me.

Edit: I noticed that the images of the three core books in the Gamespy article are much better than the ones on ENWorlds 4ed page...

Yah, you can actually *see* these! Interesting: Orcus looks, well, bestial--like the mutant offspring of a boar and goat. Is this a preview of the new Demons-as-inhuman-monsters look?