Gandalf

[Garthanos]

You can have Gandalf be low-level if you set the opposition to be low-level as well. The Balrog doesn't need to have the stats of a Balor or Pit Fiend. It might have the stats of a Huge ogre with an aura of fire akin to a Bloodfire Harpy's.

I usually dont get enough features to describe the characters in a satisfying sort of way... it isnt power level "exactly"... for instance I need Gandalf to speak atleast Elf/Dwarf/Goblin now there is also a deva feat that gives me uber speak to anything including those Intelligent Eagles.
I am somewhat satisfied taking a background that gives Gandalf speaking elven. So that I have those three but If i can afford to take Remembered Mother Tongue? thats two more levels ;-). Glamdring is a two handed weapon in the books... but he holds a staff along side it (in the movies anyway) so mechanically I want it to be a bastard sword...it doesn't have to be and that is a minor sacrifice. So if I were cutting back
Instead of a legendary high end paragon sunblade bastardsword I make sure one of his Paladin/Avenger sword attacks is a radiant and using a two handed weapon let him swap out.

I think of these as less is more builds.... instead of low level.

 

[Garthanos]

Maybe Gandalf's secondary was Gollum. I smell GM's girlfriend or roommate...

Good call on that one... and he stayed in play a good long time after he would have been toasted by many.

 

[fireinthedust]

I think a list of Gandalf's powers would help pick what he's got. Like, what he does throughout the books, and therefore what class we can fudge to be most like him.

1) Deva: incarnated maiar/angel in flesh. Dies and comes back.
2) Uses Glamdring sword: likely Bastard Sword (two handed or one + staff).
3) Holds the bridge against the balrog (marked? Divine challenge?)
4) speaks many languages (possibly supernal?), reads others
5) appear/disappear when he chooses (fey step? teleport? Aegis? Stealth?!)
6) knowledgeable; diplomacy (though not always successful (denethor): average Charisma?)
7) Mounted Combat/Mark of Handling; special mount.
8) Wise
9) Can start fires (fellowship): cantrip; possibly fire spells
10) Can impersonate voices (the hobbit): cantrip
11) Bears the elven ring of fire (resistance vs flame? longevity?)
12) In the movie makes a gem in his staff glow (dragon shard in eberron; cantrip Light)


I'd argue a low Dex and Con, simply because he needs a walking stick and he smokes. Well, Russel Crowe smokes and he's fit, so maybe average Con or higher.
Strength isn't really a priority if we go swordmage, simply because we can use Int for all the attacks if we want.
Wis should be high, Int also, as he'll be a spellcaster; also a shame to waste the Deva stat bumps.
I'd go average on Charisma; he's trained in various social skills, but folks think he's suspicious, and rulers tend not to like him.

 

[fireinthedust]

IGlamdring is a two handed weapon in the books... but he holds a staff along side it (in the movies anyway) so mechanically I want it to be a bastard sword...it doesn't have to be and that is a minor sacrifice.

(snip)I think of these as less is more builds.... instead of low level.

Not really. Consider the level you're starting at. Is this for a game? If so, and say we're starting at 6th... let me work on it.

 

[Garthanos]

A wierd thought guys... one deva player mentioned having his character swap out classes when the deva died (still divine just what he thought of as a deeper role)

Gandalf the Grey could have been one class...and Gandalf the White built as another. Perhaps Gandalf the Grey Hybrid Paladin influence and Gandalf the White Hybrid Avenger that type of thing... shrug.

I am fairly happy with some of the early Invoker/Avenger builds but perhaps they are targetting Gandalf the White....

Anyway loads of fun all around.

 

[Garthanos]

Rulers tend to not like what they cannot control (or which they envy) Aragorn too may have been disliked by rulers and over shadowed them when it came to inspiring their men. Charisma is wrapped up the intimidation trick... so spooky can be a manifestation of it. So there is plenty of room for a somewhat or very charismatic, Gandalf.

Interestingly the Deva different lifetimes schtick has some other advantages...In the silmarillion he was a broadscale bringer of hope and differently charismatic healer in the third age he is the storm crow and foreteller of change... before becoming Gandalf the White... he had more defender cast and after perhaps more striker... at least that is how I am reading it.

nice charismatic ... is good at diplomacy... mean charismatic is good at intimidtation..can you have both? ...maybe but you really have to control your context and sometimes being trained or not trained may be a personality change. You could argue that during the third age he has intimidate as a trained skill and a high charisma but relies on that charisma without having diplomacy as a trained skill... in a previous incarnation he had diplomacy as a trained skill but not intimidation.

I guess the reason I ran through the above is allowing for a higher charisma Gandalf as an Intimidating Paladin ... frees up some build options it also points towards his role in the Third age.(herald of hope is sort of the old Gandalf and he chafes at being less able to influence people the way he used to -- OK that is my interpretation).... The change might have finished itself with his charisma going lower and his wisdom rising when he became Gandalf the White... he became more aloof less connected at that point... a full acceptance of the new role.

 

[fireinthedust]

yeah, but did Gandalf die before coming to the Bridge? I don't think so.

Really, when we're talking the West, Gandalf was a Maiar. I'd say this was the period before he became a Deva, basically he was just an angel back then. As such, he could have massively different stats, whatever.

When he and Saruman, Radagast and the others (the two Blue mages in the South, if not others) came to middle earth, they took the forms of old men. Gandalf may have been apparently the oldest, needing his walking staff (and thus was called Wand-elf or something, thus Gandalf; it was the stick, I think, but I'll check later).

So let's not throw on a pile of alternate lives, unless this is your particular PC (then you can do whatever you want). If we're going Gandalf-Gandalf, really we're talking about just one rebirth.
Also, it makes sense that White Wizard is a Paragon Path, with the specification that there can be only one of them, for this same reason.

However, if you downloaded the Adventure Tools Beta Monster Builder, you now have the opportunity to whip up your very own version of a pre-flesh Gandalf. Ie: the Angel or Planetar or whatever in D&D we're going to say that he was: Maiar.
Technically any Outsider from 3e would be considered a Maiar. The Balrog was one, as was Sauron. Shelob was the descendant of a powerful spider critter, I think, but I don't know if it was itself a Maiar per se. There were, I think, Greater ones and lesser ones. Some went evil, along with Morgoth, most were good I guess, but they stayed behind. Gandalf and the other wizards were lesser ones.

I think of the West as the Planes in other settings: high level beasties go there.

 

[Elbeghast]

I'd say:

- Race: Deva
- Class: Invoker
- Armor: Cloth
- Weapon: Longsword
- Implement: Staff

That sounds relatively close to Gandalf's concept, or as close to it as you can get using official 4e rules, to me.

I love all the examples you guys come up with. Thanks for this thread.

 

[Garthanos]

That sounds relatively close to Gandalf's concept, or as close to it as you can get using official 4e rules, to me.

I love all the examples you guys come up with. Thanks for this thread.

I think the thread has been quite productive... it has got me looking back at the character source. There is a lot to be said just for that.

Some classes I hadnt thought of as contributing ... like the shielding swordmage does have a place... and dark fire as necrotic damage... glamdring as a sunblade (bastardsword) ...and I am really liking thee paragon path of Flame of Hope... between invoker with a touch of multiclass and/or hybrids I am very satisfied that 4e builds a great Gandalf or more precisely several great Gandalfs.

 

[fireinthedust]

I'd really like to run a LOTR game. My current game (which needs updating; we've been on a break) is a lot like that, in that the setting is... less trivial and more romantic, if that makes sense, like LOTR should be; but it's not as gritty or as classical a fantasy tale.

I'm having trouble with my Gandalf builds for Wizard/Paladin, in that the MAD is making him... well, useless. I mean, he's a wizard who gets by with a sword, right? However, he also wields a staff, smokes, and doesn't cast fireballs. He needs Cantrip, sure, but otherwise he'd be fine without special effects for the most part.
So to have any sort of bonus to any of these abilities, he needs to have a high Int, Wis/Cha (for paladins), Con (for staff of defense), and Str (for even basic melee attacks, if not paladin thwaks with a sword; unless I use that PH2 feat letting me use Int or Wis for basic attacks).
Ugh.

Maybe Swordmage/Wizard would be good, with some Cleric benefits for healing?

I'm going to grab a copy of Fellowship of the Ring and see if I can't hash this one out. It's going to bother me.


I second thanks for the thread! Good idea!