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Gay PCs or NPCs

fusangite

First Post
Bront said:
Having played with an immature group as a mature gamer, I understand why.

It's hard enough keeping the players on a fairly serious note (I had one druid who insisted his wolf was a submissive peer, a Aasimar Paladin who threatened to wack people if they didn't listen, a Frey Sorceress (Paladin's RL GF) who liked to try to ride IN the paladin's armor, and generaly a group that couldn't stay on topic in a serious manor for more than 10 minutes), and if I had introduced homosexuality in the game, in any form, not only would there have been comments about it constantly, but it likely would have caused RL problems for whoever had to deal with said person. (AKA, why I don't roleplay with teenagers who don't have RP references anymore).
What you are describing here is a group of adolescents who are barely under control in terms of sexualizing the game, regardless of what happens. I guess I'm not thinking about such groups but rather about the kinds of groups I was in as a teenager.
Sidereal Knight said:
As someone said earlier, sexuality is only part of a character's makeup... it doesn't make them intrisically good or bad, in my opinion.
Another thing to note, here is that homosexuality was not really thought of as an identity category in most societies outside of aboriginal North America (and there, the identity was halfway between modern ideas of homosexuality and transsexuality) prior to the very recent past. Homosexuality as an activity is something we have seen in all societies historically. Homosexual relationships have also been pretty common. But homosexuality as in "I'm gay," not so much.

Most societies limited problems with women having girlfriends and men having boyfriends, provided they fitted into heterosexual or asexual social structures. If men wanted to sleep with other men and maintain close relations with their male "friends," that was a whole lot more likely to be accepted if the man also got married or took vows of celibacy. A man's homosexuality might be common knowledge but he would be unlikely to face any significant persecution/prosecution unless he deliberately chose to be public about it.

For this reason, unless a game deals directly with either sexuality or romance, unless it is an Eberron-type setting where D&D is just the modern world with magic instead of electricity, a character being gay is unlikely to have any operational meaning unless you create a unique social space for a gay identity in the form of a special order or social role.
 

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Nightfall

Sage of the Scarred Lands
Li Shenron said:
Interesting how many point out that there's no place for sexuality in their game, but what about romance?

Uhm not much of that either since most PCs aren't interested in the after-effects of said romance. :p :)
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest
This has usually only come up for us in more recent-era games. I ran a Cyberpunk 2020 game in which one player (female) played a gay male helicopter pilot. That's about it. In most other circumstances, it has never come up.

Interestingly enough, while the player was identified as straight at the time, she decided during the following year that she identified lesbian. Makes me wonder what inklings she had at the time she was playing in my game.
 

Bartmanhomer

First Post
Just to be mature and realistic about this topic, I have a question, Can a transsexual male and transsexual female could make a couple? I know it's confusing and awkward.
 

diaglo

Adventurer
Olgar Shiverstone said:
Yes and yes, but it's never been an issue.

at one point in the campaign over half the players were gay. Ryan, his beau, Shayne, and Sean. with Sam, Marty, and I straight.

some sexuality did come up in game. and has on occassion. Ryan's played a female. and made moves on various NPCs and PCs.

and Sean has changed sexes due to reincarnate.

now that Joe is a woman.... well Cha 21.. how can it not cum up...
 

Nightfall

Sage of the Scarred Lands
Uhm...well it's a couple of SOMETHINGS that for sure.

*is glad mind flayers don't have this issue* They're just evil and spawn like fish. :p :)
 

demiurge1138

Inventor of Super-Toast
I've DMed for one gay PC, although it was very briefly (as in, two sessions after we found out he was gay, everybody got killed). I'd have been interested to see where the player took it, because it was not done seriously at all, at least what we saw.

In DMing, I've had gay NPCs a couple of times, but it's never been at the forefront, just like romance and sex in general isn't much of an issue in my games. If it ever came up, I'd be fine with it, but it hasn't yet.

Demiurge out.
 

WayneLigon

Adventurer
Bartmanhomer said:
Just to be mature and realistic about this topic, I have a question, Can a transsexual male and transsexual female could make a couple? I know it's confusing and awkward.

If you mean 'create a child', no; the plumbing is there, but it's not connected to the mains (except in the case of urination):) ie, unless magic or slightly technology is used than we currently have available, there is no means to carry a child or to actually produce semen. At least one temporary uterus transplant has been done, and there is the possibility of the insanely dangerous ectopic (outside the womb) pregnancy (again, magic could greatly aid this process). Transsexual women can nurse, though.
 


WayneLigon

Adventurer
I've done two gay PC's, though neither in D&D. One was a bisexual Call of Cthulhu investigator I played for a couple years, and the other is a super-patriot superhero I'm doing in a current online game. Gay NPC's appear occassionally, as the situation warrents, though unless it comes up (seldom, but the question does arise) the PC's selcom notice it.

For an NPC, sometimes it just makes sense that it is so. One or two times at least, it's been important to the scenario that it be so. (One time, they were on the trail of a shapeshifter spy who typically changed to a very beautiful half-elven female in order to get close to the military types so she could glean information from them. There was one young man it never could seduce, though, and it was really getting ticked off. Enough so that it made a few mistakes that led the PC's to the fact it was a shapeshifter they were dealing with. The PC's tried to figure out how this was possible, until one of them hit on the obvious and flat-out asked the officer. With that bit of info in hand, they could then clue him in on what was going on so he could playact and help them trap the shapeshifter by feeding it wrong information).
 

Kemrain

First Post
WayneLigon said:
If you mean 'create a child', no; the plumbing is there, but it's not connected to the mains (except in the case of urination):) ie, unless magic or slightly technology is used than we currently have available, there is no means to carry a child or to actually produce semen. At least one temporary uterus transplant has been done, and there is the possibility of the insanely dangerous ectopic (outside the womb) pregnancy (again, magic could greatly aid this process). Transsexual women can nurse, though.
Thank you, Wayne. I was going to try to field the question, but you covered it very well and I'm still not sure what the origional question was. Such an informative and tasteful answer.

- Kemrain the Appreciative.
 

painandgreed

First Post
A DM I had in the 80's had most of the elves in his campaign being bisexual. Some (about 10%) had preferences one way or another but the culture as a whole wasn't concerned with gender unless trying to have a child and they just slept with whomever they felt like. This carried over into my campaigns and PCs I have played and has never caused any trouble. Nobody really seems to have an issue with bi effeminent elves, but as typical, sex never really happened that much anyway.

Every now and then there will be either some NPC villain who will usually have a host of sexual deviancies that PCs will encounter. There will also be the typical stereotypes. Anytime a PC goes to get fancy clothes made in a large city, the tailor almost always ends up being gay. In the game I'm currently in there was a flaming gay bugbear tailor that made our clothes for us and the DM went into great detail on the care this bugbear had spent on combing and styling his hair all over his body. He has been a wealth of information on the social situation in the city we currently inhabit.
 

jueqel

First Post
Sexuality, sex, romance, and gender crop up all the time in the games I play (as player and GM). Even when I steer clear of the topic and focus on "killing the monster" sessions, it rarely fails to crop up. Some PCs use sex as a weapon (seduction mostly), and interesting plot points can conveniently crop up to keep players on their toes.

When running one-shot games for strangers and sexuality does come up, I make sure there is variety in the sex department.

So, yes. I always have gay, straight, and bi characters in my games. Hmmm... just like the real world. Sometimes the straight ones are not so obvious, but they are there.
 

CaptainCalico

Community Supporter
I'm a female DM running for a group of 5 men (including my husband) and 1 woman. We are all in the late 20's - early 30's age group, and the camapign is strongly focused on the social aspects of the game. In fact, we refer to it as the "religion, politics and sex" game. *grin*

Given that, I felt free to have a major NPC be gay. When he was presented to the group he came across as "flame-lite", dressed to the height of fashion, very flirtatious, but also genuinely friendly. At first the male PCs were glad to have somone who could help them through the intricacies of court life. Then, when another NPC did the 'nudge-nudge, wink-wink' bit and told them he was gay they all instictelvly recoiled. A few months later in the campaign they figured out how much their PCs could use his help, and suddenly the phrase "Well, he is a damn handsome man....." started to come up just about every session. :lol:

But then, true love, arranged marriages, and contract births are all grist for the mill in my campaign, and my players keep coming back, so I must be doing something right.
 

Darth K'Trava

First Post
No. Can't say that it's come up in any of our games. But then our group's too immature at times to handle it with any sort of dignity. Yes, we're bad. :p
 

Eluvan

First Post
I'm really quite surprised to see how many people say romance doesn't come up in their games.

I'd always seen it as kind of integral... just like almost every book or film has some kind of romantic subplot (at least), all my games seem to have the same.

Anyway, for my part... I'm a straight male, and I've played straight males predominantly. But I have been known to play women. I played a lesbian once; it was tasteful, I think, and I was mature about it, but it still made me feel a little odd. I guess it's just that, even though it wasn't my motivation for playing the character, I inevitably *did* get kind of a kick out of it for the 'wrong' reasons. So... I'm not sorry I did it, but I wouldn't do it again. I'd lose all my credibility if I got a reputation for playing lesbians. :p

Anyway, the lingering feeling of oddness from that makes me want to play a gay guy some time soon. Also, I just like challenging myself and I want to see if I can do it. :)
 

Kenson

First Post
Eluvan said:
I'm really quite surprised to see how many people say romance doesn't come up in their games.
Well, I'd say part of it comes from the fact that (and I say this without rancor) most straight people take for granted the amount that romance and sexuality infuse both stories and their daily lives simply because they (unlike sexual minorities) don't have to think about it.

Take, for example, the following classic plot hooks:

• A noble's spouse is having a scanalous and potentially ruinous affair.

• A merchant's child has been abducted and sold as a potential mate or pleasure slave.

• A young couple is fleeing their oppressive families so they can be together.

• The ghost of a victim murdered due to jealousy seeks vengeance and to protect its beloved.

• Someone who takes a shine to a PC is found murdered shortly thereafter, with the PC the prime suspect.

Any of the above (as well as countless others) could just as easily involve same-sex couples as they could heterosexual couples, and I'd be willing to wager that most players don't consider them "romance" plots when they involve "normal" (straight) relationships and serve just as hooks to get adventurers involved with interesting plots (and I put "normal" in quotes to mean "the norm" rather than as a prejorative).
 


haakon1

Adventurer
HeapThaumaturgist said:
As to Rufus and Burne ... I mean ... maybe I'm stretching here, but two otherwise normal guys who settled down, together, in a castle ... together ... to run a small town ... together. With no mention made in the module that they had wives, girlfriends, or anything else. It just seemed like a natural conclusion.

Perhaps, but people were like that in "olden times". As in, gayness was so far out of the norm that people didn't go looking in every closet to find it, and two men or two women could live together without (so far as I can tell) whispering about it.

For example, Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson are clearly not meant to be gay characters. Post 1968 or so, it seems like they MUST be gay, but pre-1950 or so, it's more like "what's gay again? People do that? Really?"
 

Monte At Home

First Post
It was not the intention of the original creators of Rufus and Burne (who were PCs together and played through the adventure) that they were gay.

However, it was absolutely my intention to portray them as such in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (there's only the one bedchamber for them in the entire castle), without saying "and they're gay," which would be silly. (Silly because it's really not an issue, and because I didn't identify straight characters as such.)

There is also a gay couple in Dead Gods, and there are a few characters in other products I've written who were gay in my conception for them, but really, in D&D, it just isn't really all that relevant.

It happens that way in my home campaign all the time. NPCs I create are sometimes gay, but rarely do the PCs ever know one way or another, because most of the time they don't care. They just want the information they need from the NPCs, or they want to kill them and take their stuff. That's D&D. Occasionally, it comes up, like when they were hunting a particular vampire and learned that she had a half-dragon lover. They assumed that the half-dragon would be male, and almost overlooked the half-dragon female involved.
 

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