GC 2006 - Ptolus Hardback $120!?!

[Vocenoctum]

Part of the purchase price or not, it being a "nice addition" will add value to the whole package to many. Take for instance me. I have heard many good things about Banewarrens, but have never picked it up. To hear it is included with it (PDF form or other, makes no difference to me) adds value to the package deal, even if it is an extra.

Right, it's a nice addition and sales incentive. (I have it somewhere in the Closet O' Useless Tomes.) It's not even 3.5, is it? Perhaps the PDF was updated at some point, I didn't follow it after purchase.
I should have said "it's not part of the page count", but since someone will argue that also, it doesn't really matter.

 

[IronWolf]

Right, it's a nice addition and sales incentive. (I have it somewhere in the Closet O' Useless Tomes.) It's not even 3.5, is it? Perhaps the PDF was updated at some point, I didn't follow it after purchase.
I should have said "it's not part of the page count", but since someone will argue that also, it doesn't really matter.

I'd give you the "not part of the page count" argument. As for it being 3.5, I don't think so, but I also heard rumor it was being looked at to see if it really needed to be updated to 3.5 or if it could remain as is. So I think it is at least being taken in consideration (again, heard second hand, so not sure of the validity of this).

 

[Crothian]

Adding the PDF for a product from years ago? I'd say it's a nice addition, but it's not a part of the purchase price.

Just because the product is a few years old has little bearing. On these boards it is still a highly recomended module. Hmm, I take that back being an older module that is still being recomended on these boards proves that is has stood up against the test of time and even after 3 or so years people have not replaced it with some new module. I would say then that having it included is a very nice bonus.

 

[DaveMage]

I'd give you the "not part of the page count" argument. As for it being 3.5, I don't think so, but I also heard rumor it was being looked at to see if it really needed to be updated to 3.5 or if it could remain as is. So I think it is at least being taken in consideration (again, heard second hand, so not sure of the validity of this).

Ironwolf: See post #204. Some guy named Monte started that rumor...

 

[IronWolf]

Ironwolf: See post #204. Some guy named Monte started that rumor...

Teach me to sleep through the middle of 300+ post threads! I guess not only is it good news Monte is doing that *but* my friend may be a more reliable source of information than I thought!

 

[romp]

I know that there's no way I could afford to spend over a year of my life producing one product (and even if it did I don't have the necessary connections to have any hope of seeing the effort succeed). I think it takes a lot of guts (and hard work) to attempt a book the size of Ptolus and I hope that it's successful.

During the discussion of the "mysterious announcement" hype leading up to the offical announcement of Ptolus, it was pointed out that this was why they hired Mike Mearls, i.e. to produce material for Malhavoc while Monte devoted time to Ptolus. This lead to Iron Heroes and its planned books. Hopefully IH is not dead (in terms of continued support) now that Mearls has left and Monte announces his baby to the world.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I'm still not sure why my point is not clear here, but are you saying that this product is not made for fans of Ptolus/Monte Cooks? Basically, if you can't afford the book, you're not meant to have the book?

That's exactly right. Welcome to life.

In addition to RPG's, I'm also a fan of poker, strip clubs, paintball, filet mignon, and Caribbean cruises.

Unfortunately I can't enjoy any of them as often as I'd like.

And hey! As long as you're bitching, get on the horn with Richard Branson and get him to reduce the cost of that trip to the moon. I don't have $100 million to blow and it's just not fair. They're really leaving a lot of us fans of space travel out in the cold with that price. Seems like he'd be better off charging $1 a trip and selling it to 100 million fans.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

My fear is that some fans will not be able to afford it (and some fans will) which kind of hurts our hobby as a whole. Its eliteist in a sense, if you can afford it... you can play in Monte's world. Monte himself stated there wouldnt be a Ptolus light, Ptolus is Ptolus or somesuch, etc (dont remember the exact quote). I wonder how his fans that cant afford it (for whatever reason) feel about it.

Why should all gamers be able to afford all gaming products? Again, the Ferrari metaphor. You can buy a $10 000 car or a $100 000 car. Either one will get you to work and back. Is it somehow unfair to "car fans" that they can't afford the $100 000 car? Do you not see how ridiculous this line of reasoning is? The hole in the analogy is that you can't download a .pdf of a Ferrari for half the price and most if not all (if not more) functionality, but you can download a Ptolus .pdf with this quality.

Why should gamers care that a particular product or small handful of products is priced higher than they're willing to pay? I see no reason to believe that WotC (to name an example company) is going to scrap their line of (more or less) affordable books in favour of deluxe pagecount monoliths that only the rich gamers can afford, considering that their main goal is to get more new young gamers into the hobby. That would be silly. People whose job is to make money for other, more severe people do not do silly things (more than once).

There is a market share for expensive books. This does not mean that suddenly there will only be expensive books, or that everyone has a right to those books. The market will attempt to sell as many books at each price increment as the consumers will buy. I suspect that inexpensive books will sell better, but expensive books will chip out their own little niche too.

 

[Vocenoctum]

That's exactly right. Welcome to life.

In addition to RPG's, I'm also a fan of poker, strip clubs, paintball, filet mignon, and Caribbean cruises.

Unfortunately I can't enjoy any of them as often as I'd like.

And hey! As long as you're bitching, get on the horn with Richard Branson and get him to reduce the cost of that trip to the moon. I don't have $100 million to blow and it's just not fair. They're really leaving a lot of us fans of space travel out in the cold with that price. Seems like he'd be better off charging $1 a trip and selling it to 100 million fans.

You know, that's quite a lot I've been called either "bitching" or "whining". In case you missed a clue, I couldn't care less about Ptolus. I'm talking about a product that could have been made 2 ways, even both (like most Limited Edition's) and the decisions that got it there.

RPG's are not Ferrarri's. If you don't see that there's something to "well, screw you, this product isn't meant for a gamer, it's meant only for a select few" in this industry, then more's the pity really. I don't believe I've been impolite throughout, and I've tried to illustrate my point before, and it's being ignored as "whining" or "bitching". I'm not sure why I expected a discussion to go any differently, but don't act like I'm complaining that Ptolus is $120.

Going back to the XBox 360 example. Microsoft can make their game console inaccessible to plenty of gamers, it's their choice of how to market. The (EBgames preorder) bundles are values for what they are, but they're not truely values to those that want something less. Ptolus is a fine value for what it is, but it's excluding fans THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO!

Malhavok is a business, and must strive for profitability, but the gamers shouldn't be neglected in the equation.

 

[mythusmage]

You know, that's quite a lot I've been called either "bitching" or "whining". In case you missed a clue, I couldn't care less about Ptolus.

Then why are you going on about it?

Ptolus is a fine value for what it is, but it's excluding fans THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO!

It's Monte's toy, Monte can do whatever he feels like with it. I've read the descriptions and seen the examples. Furthermore, I trust Monte to do right by the product. Having about a year to find out more is a bonus. On September 1st I'm making the down payment.

Want a cheaper alternative? Buy the damn PDFs when they're available. Hell, I may just get those as well, so I'll have something I can print as player hand outs.

It was Monte's decision to publish Ptolus as he is, and I think he's capable of making such decisions.