GC 2006 - Ptolus Hardback $120!?!

[ShinHakkaider]

If the CD in the book includes the PDF of the book I'm sold on it.
If not I'll just be buying the PDF. If there is no PDF, I'm not buying it at all.

For me it's just the matter of getting what I want. If I cant get it then D00d's dont get my money, it's that simple.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Quite true, there are lots of ways to work the math to one side or the other. But you are still getting the embossed cover, poster map, 24 handout pages, a CD, built-in bookmarks in the Ptolus book for a $16 price difference. I am just saying its not like they are thinking about charging $120 for a 224 page sourcebook. This book is supposed to have a high page count and several other features that will most likely help justify the higher than normal price.

I agree. I agreed in the first place.

I was just pointing out the math. Hopefully the handout pages are top quality. We don't get enough of those these days.

I don't think it's overpriced. Too expensive for some? Yes. Overpriced? No.

 

[JoeGKushner]

No, I am shocked at the complete non-sequitur.

Don't like the price tag, don't buy it. Fine. I just can't get from there to, "Never buying Malhavoc again."

Welcome to the internet? Would you like to start your order with a flame war or just go straight for the non-sequitur? Or will that be a booth over by the 4th edition converstion?

 

[HiLiphNY]

So much bitchy whining from all the poor kids. If you can't afford it, I sympathize with you, but don't bitch about it. Move on. I make a pretty good living, and feel that $120 for a 650+ page book is just fine, thank you.


Besides, all this banter is moot. Sales figures will tell the true story as to whether or not the price was right - it's called "Price Discovery." In my biz, as a trader, I hear sooooo many times how such-and-such a stock is WAY too expensive. At the end of the day, the only person who is actually right with respect to pice, is the market. If the market can bear the price, then it's the right price. End of story.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

Save me the fanboyism and try getting out more yourself.

I don't know that it is fanboyism (although some people will get offended if they perceive an attack on a favorite of theirs) as much as your blanket statement of being done with Malhavoc (in my case, this could have been any company). If you have been continually disappointed with their products, I could see this as being a proverbial "straw that breaks the camels back". It would appear, though, that you are not completely disappointed with their product, so why would you back yourself into a corner (unless when the next interesting and affordable product comes down the line you decide to buy it anyway)?

I will probably pass on this one, but it isn't something that I would normally buy (and is hard to justify).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Actually , I own a car, tyvm. I also have 2 jobs which keep me spoiled when it comes to things I want to buy so no problem with spending that kind of money on anything. I just wont spend that kind of money on one book. Save me the fanboyism and try getting out more yourself.

If everyone could stop with the personal shots, there's a valid point he made here: Every industry, after an early infant period, creates products at a wide variety of prices. I'm quite happy with my Honda, and I don't begrudge anyone their $50,000 Acura made by the same company.

If someone doesn't want WLD or Ptolus, great. But that doesn't make Monte or Malhavoc wrong for making it, and it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the people buying it.

Ptolus will probably be a large percentage of the total amount of money I spend on all RPGs next year, but from what I know so far, the setting sounds more or less perfect for me for baseline D&D games (as opposed to Northern Crown, for instance, which would be tricky to drop in, say, Crypt of the Devil Lich).

At the same time, I didn't buy The World's Largest Dungeon, because I'd simply never use a significant enough fraction of the material to justify purchasing that. I'd rather get fewer pages of an equivalent dollar amount's worth of Dungeon Crawl Classics, because I can get exactly the content I want, and not the stuff I'm not interested in. (Leiber-inspired crow goddesses, yes. Undead invading a paladin order's castle, no.)

 

[Crothian]

My favorite designers of old have always been Monte Cook and Bruce Cordell. Through the years Ive watched Malhavoc grow, bought a fair share of Malhavoc books, and have lurked in there forums. To me there isnt any justification for spending that much on any one book from Malhavoc or anyone else.

What justifications are you looking for? Malhavoc makes quality books, they have a good sense of rules and layout and writing. They make high quality books, what more does a publisher have to do to justify this to you?

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

If everyone could stop with the personal shots

I hope that my comment was not considered a personal shot, as I was just pointing out the only real flaw I saw in his comments. I actually agree with most of what has been said on both sides of the argument. I only think that we sometimes use ALWAYS/NEVER too much when we may not mean that. I also did not have a problem with his comment until after I read a later post in which he appeared to be pleased with Monte's work in general. If that is the case, then this is either a knee-jerk reaction to the price (and he may not actually mean that he is done with Malhavoc) or he thought that the price was so out of line that he actually intends to never buy from Malhavoc again.

If it is the first case then fine, I make knee-jerk reactions too. As I try to remind myself when I do it, next time give it more thought.

If it is the second case then I only hope that the decision was well thought out.

Either way, the decision is his to make, I am only giving my view.

 

[Mighty Veil]

My 2 cents

Reading what's been said I find myself agreeing with a few people. The Monte Fans might not like what is getting said, they should learn to accept critics.

1. Furry races are a bit lame. D&D might offer furries to play but not as standard races. AU is heavily influenced by saturday morning kids cartoons, so I'm not surprised in seeing them. At least there are no races with a space monkey familiar (which is a surprising relief considering Malhavok was a villian from that show). But some people like stuff like Cat-men, etc. Me, I perfer Anglo-saxon/Euro based fantasy. Question: Would a Wookie be considered a furry race?

2. The book does sound like a money grab. I'm sure we'll be seeing on an upcoming update an essay on why it's price is actually fair and anyone who thinks otherwise is not only wrong, but foolish. So here's a betting pool: What reason will be used to explain why Plotus is worth US$120?
a) The insulting comparisson excuse: when he insults another companies' book to make his sound better.
b) The value excuse: when he explains how every book was with him while he showered and it's art is so good, so it's an instant collector's item!

c) The marketing excuse: DVDs and CDs have expensive box sets, so this is just a RPG box set. And if you compared it to the price of a new BMW, it's a real deal!

Really, if it is a book that is a whole campaign allowing a DM to do little prep work. Then it could be a useful item for some. Those who just want it as a campaign setting guide book and were planning there own adventures. Those people I can see having a beef with the price tag. $120 is allot for any book. But maybe the guy wants to buy a new car so we're given an inflated price tag. If you play enough D&D, have a normal job (normal hours and normal pay, allowing you the normal bills that must be paid for every month), then chances are any book that saves you time is close enough to being worth $120 price tag, plus you should be able to afford it. The only questions then would be: Do I like the setting? Do I like the written campaign adventure??

Let's face it. If you don't use Malhavok books in your games (whether you still like them or not). Chances are you won't use this. If you use some Malhavok stuff but never its game worlds (you substitute the Realms for Diamond Throne or Greyhawk for IH's world of ruins), then you probably won't like this one too.

 

[Arnwyn]

I am no fan of Monte's, and I dislike AU/AE... but I am so buying this book. It looks like it was designed exactly for people like me. With the insane page count, maps, handouts, and full-color work, as well as such things like color-coding and "mnemonic aiding repetition" blah blah blah, combined with the fact that it's a (likely) easily insertable setting product (it is only a city, after all) and an adventure - I am the target market for this book.

And I'm all about the adventures these days.

So for those who buy this will this actually be used in play or will it be something that you sit on the shelf and avoid handling? If a buddy wants to look at it will you tell him to put on gloves and use tweezers to turn the pages? Or will handling it be dissallowed?

It'd be handled as roughly as my Nintendo DS. Same price, y'know (and I suspect that the hardcover book will be even more resilient). It's only $120, not the Hope Diamond.

I can't bring myself to pay for bells and whistles that don't do much to improve the utility I would get out of the product.

From the report, it sounds like the bells and whistles actually do enhance the utility of the product - more so than any other gaming book in existence (again, based on the report: "extensive cross-references, color coding, footnotes, topic divided indices, glossary, and mnemonic aiding repetition"? WTF? Somebody actually deciding that my game product should be easily used? Amazing).