Generic Room Descriptions?

[DonTadow]

I'm not entirely sure how this is actually going to save you time.

If the environment exists in order to be explored, then I would argue that you are better off removing the unimportant rooms from the map. That saves even more time. In alot of ways, a dungeon is like a story and empty rooms are like chapters in the story that don't actually advance the plot or develop the characters. Rather than use Phil's bits to clothe empty rooms (which is a legitimate use to be sure), I'd suggest that they are even better used to fire the imagination and add actual substance to the room. Player's examining that torn backpack (with appropriate skill checks) might learn the size of the creature, or even something about its nature - valuable clues to what might lie ahead. Examing the tattered contents they might recognize (with appropriate skill checks) the ruined vestments of a clerical order, and so forth.

If the environment doesn't exist in order to be explored, for example in an event based scenario rather than a site based scenario, then detailing the rooms in which something isn't going to happen is perhaps not the most productive use of your preparation time. And even then, if the important thing about the room is what happens in it and not the exact nature of the room itself, you can usually get by with a sentence or two rather than a paragraph. Elaborate descriptions serve the purpose of allowing you to interact more fully with something, or to set a particular mood. In this case, since its your NPC's that are important and meant to be interacted with, I'd spend most of my introduction time describing them and move the room into the background.

I could not disagree with you more. Generic rooms provide a sense of realism. If you only describe the room's in which "something is in" then in all honesty you're taking away some of the pc's abilities to investigate on there own. Now describing generic room's does take more time but it provides additinal role playing moments and create's a sense of "uncertainitiy" that can increase tension and excitement in a dungeon. A dungeon that you only say descriptins for important rooms is like reading the cliffnotes of a book and not reading the book.

 

[mac1504]

Is there any book or website where I could find generic room descriptions so that I don't have to write up something for unimportant rooms every time? Ideally, it would be divided by rooms, Like throne room, armory, bed chamber, library, etc, with a number different 1-2 paragraph generic examples of such rooms described for each.

This would really save time in filling a castle or any other building.

I always thought a website that had a database of descriptions, for various categories, written by contributors would be a great resource for DM's.

If i had the time, I'd do it.

But I don't.

 

[Celebrim]

I could not disagree with you more.

Ok. We'll see about that...

Generic rooms provide a sense of realism.

How many truly empty rooms have you ever been in? The only time a room is truly empty is when it has been throughly cleaned by someone with the deliberate intent of making it empty. In all other cases, empty rooms are unrealistic.

Now, you probably think that there is some difference between a generic room and an empty room, but I don't. A room which has been given a generic description is like a room wearing the emporer's new clothes. You may think its not naked, but the minute the PC's actually look at the room, either a) you are going to have to actually spontaneously dress it, in which case the generic description didn't do you alot of good, or b) they are going to realize that the room is unimportant because you didn't or can't bother to think of actual details.

If you only describe the room's in which "something is in" then in all honesty you're taking away some of the pc's abilities to investigate on there own.

I don't see how you figure that. Empty rooms to me are like dragons in 10'x10' rooms. Surely someone built that room for some purpose. What was it? What evidence remains of that former usage? What's it used for now? Does any nearby inhabitant visit? What signs of thier visitation did they leave behind (tracks, spoor, litter). If not, what is it about the room that keeps people way? Ultimately, alot of generic rooms puts the characters in a maze problem in which each particular element of the maze is by itself rather uninteresting. Maze problems use to be my absolute favorite dungeon elements when I first started DMing, but gradually I began to realize that what looked cool on paper was usually tedious to play through. Today, I'd rather make the various locations of the maze interesting (so that being 'lost' is sorta fun...at least for the players), or else skip the maze entirely either by removing it from the design (in a location based adventure) or handwaving it (in an event based adventure).

Now describing generic room's does take more time...

Time which you could spend on describing something more important or developing more interesting locations, challenges, puzzles, clues, etc.

but it provides additinal role playing moments...

You can't interact with a generic room. To interact with it, it has to become non-generic - which was precisely my point. A list of descriptions is interesting to a DM only in so far as it fires up ones imagination.

and create's a sense of "uncertainitiy" that can increase tension and excitement in a dungeon.

Not really. A truly detailed location is always complex enough that the player's generally don't know whether they are missing things, and generally speaking in my experience are missing things. A raw description of a room isn't really details. It just provides a jumping off point for providing details. If you aren't willing or able to add those details, I'll quickly be able to tell as a player that the room/item serves no purpose in the dungeon even if my character can't.

A dungeon that you only say descriptins for important rooms is like reading the cliffnotes of a book and not reading the book.

No, a dungeon which only contains what is important is like a work by JRR Tolkein. A dungeon which contains all sorts of unimportant but highly detailed things is like a work by Robert Jordan. A dungeon which contains a bunch of tacked on empty rooms is like a novel that doesn't get published because the editor finds it boring and unprofessional.

But, analogies obscure the truth, so let's just avoid them. The really important and interesting part of that sentense is the word 'say'. It indicates that you don't really understand what I'm talking about. What I'm advising has nothing to do with the verb 'say'. I'm not giving advice on how to run a dungeon. I'm giving advice on how to design a dungeon. My advice is that if you can't think of interesting things to put into the room for the PC's to play with, don't put it in the dungeon. I'm not saying that you should only have descriptions for important rooms. I'm saying that you should not have uninteresting rooms at all. If you don't have uninteresting rooms, then you don't need descriptions for them. If you have uninteresting rooms, giving them interesting descriptions is a waste of time, because it won't be long before the PC's realize that the description is just a 2D description, and has added no more to the room than if it were painted on to the walls.

 

[Wycen]

Does AEG's Tool Kit book have generic room descriptions?

 

[philreed]

Rather than use Phil's bits to clothe empty rooms (which is a legitimate use to be sure), I'd suggest that they are even better used to fire the imagination and add actual substance to the room.

Correction: Not my bits. I didn't write or publish those. They're by a completely different company and the only reason I posted the link was because I thought those products would help. I get nothing from the sale of those PDFs.

 

[General Barron]

Hmm... maybe I'm just a weirdo DM, but I don't really like reading paragraph descriptions of rooms to the players. I just make some notes to myself about what the room looks like in general (library, bedroom, etc), make notes about important features (chests, hidden doors, important items, etc), and then just 'freestyle' it from there.

When the PCs walk into a room, I tell them a short, general description. If they ask questions about certain features (which they usually do), then I will go ahead and elaborate on those.

I've tried adventures where I read a long, detailed, paragraph description first, but it just makes the game flow not very smoothly. It feels more like a choose-your-own-adventure book than anything. And the players always end up asking about certain features of the room anyway, so I end up having to come up with stuff on the fly no matter what.

So basically, just save yourself the trouble of writing everything down, and just have a good mental picture of the place beforehand (which you should have anyway). Just my 2 cents.

 

[Xath]

I used to write room descriptions for a MUD, which is unfortunately now shut down. But if you could get a copy of a fantasy MUD source code, there will be tons of room descriptions in there.

 

[DonTadow]

Ok. We'll see about that...



How many truly empty rooms have you ever been in? The only time a room is truly empty is when it has been throughly cleaned by someone with the deliberate intent of making it empty. In all other cases, empty rooms are unrealistic.

Now, you probably think that there is some difference between a generic room and an empty room, but I don't. A room which has been given a generic description is like a room wearing the emporer's new clothes. You may think its not naked, but the minute the PC's actually look at the room, either a) you are going to have to actually spontaneously dress it, in which case the generic description didn't do you alot of good, or b) they are going to realize that the room is unimportant because you didn't or can't bother to think of actual details.



I don't see how you figure that. Empty rooms to me are like dragons in 10'x10' rooms. Surely someone built that room for some purpose. What was it? What evidence remains of that former usage? What's it used for now? Does any nearby inhabitant visit? What signs of thier visitation did they leave behind (tracks, spoor, litter). If not, what is it about the room that keeps people way? Ultimately, alot of generic rooms puts the characters in a maze problem in which each particular element of the maze is by itself rather uninteresting. Maze problems use to be my absolute favorite dungeon elements when I first started DMing, but gradually I began to realize that what looked cool on paper was usually tedious to play through. Today, I'd rather make the various locations of the maze interesting (so that being 'lost' is sorta fun...at least for the players), or else skip the maze entirely either by removing it from the design (in a location based adventure) or handwaving it (in an event based adventure).



Time which you could spend on describing something more important or developing more interesting locations, challenges, puzzles, clues, etc.



You can't interact with a generic room. To interact with it, it has to become non-generic - which was precisely my point. A list of descriptions is interesting to a DM only in so far as it fires up ones imagination.



Not really. A truly detailed location is always complex enough that the player's generally don't know whether they are missing things, and generally speaking in my experience are missing things. A raw description of a room isn't really details. It just provides a jumping off point for providing details. If you aren't willing or able to add those details, I'll quickly be able to tell as a player that the room/item serves no purpose in the dungeon even if my character can't.



No, a dungeon which only contains what is important is like a work by JRR Tolkein. A dungeon which contains all sorts of unimportant but highly detailed things is like a work by Robert Jordan. A dungeon which contains a bunch of tacked on empty rooms is like a novel that doesn't get published because the editor finds it boring and unprofessional.

But, analogies obscure the truth, so let's just avoid them. The really important and interesting part of that sentense is the word 'say'. It indicates that you don't really understand what I'm talking about. What I'm advising has nothing to do with the verb 'say'. I'm not giving advice on how to run a dungeon. I'm giving advice on how to design a dungeon. My advice is that if you can't think of interesting things to put into the room for the PC's to play with, don't put it in the dungeon. I'm not saying that you should only have descriptions for important rooms. I'm saying that you should not have uninteresting rooms at all. If you don't have uninteresting rooms, then you don't need descriptions for them. If you have uninteresting rooms, giving them interesting descriptions is a waste of time, because it won't be long before the PC's realize that the description is just a 2D description, and has added no more to the room than if it were painted on to the walls.

Ok you were right . I think I misunderstood your first posting and I believe in the end, after reading your response, we agree. I love putting thing's to play with in rooms and watch them play for minutes trying to figure out why there's one bucket of cool water in a room when the other rooms had two buckets.

I probably mispoke by using the word generic. Generic, is the wrong term. I assumed you meant anything that is not pertaining to the adventure is ignored, which is obviously not the case.

 

[IronWolf]

It's a simple MS Access database that lists the type of escription, the adventure, magazine and notes on what i can expect basically from it.

when i get ready to build a story arc i open it up and see what woudl fit and what i can twist to fit, then open up the bits book for filler leave your emai laddress and i'll send what i have

I would be interested in seeing it. You can email it to:

enworld ..at.. elfshadow ..dot.. net

Thanks!

 

[Sado]

No, a dungeon which only contains what is important is like a work by JRR Tolkein. A dungeon which contains all sorts of unimportant but highly detailed things is like a work by Robert Jordan. A dungeon which contains a bunch of tacked on empty rooms is like a novel that doesn't get published because the editor finds it boring and unprofessional.

But, analogies obscure the truth, so let's just avoid them. The really important and interesting part of that sentense is the word 'say'. It indicates that you don't really understand what I'm talking about. What I'm advising has nothing to do with the verb 'say'. I'm not giving advice on how to run a dungeon. I'm giving advice on how to design a dungeon. My advice is that if you can't think of interesting things to put into the room for the PC's to play with, don't put it in the dungeon. I'm not saying that you should only have descriptions for important rooms. I'm saying that you should not have uninteresting rooms at all. If you don't have uninteresting rooms, then you don't need descriptions for them. If you have uninteresting rooms, giving them interesting descriptions is a waste of time, because it won't be long before the PC's realize that the description is just a 2D description, and has added no more to the room than if it were painted on to the walls.

Comparing a dungeon in an rpg to any novel is apples and oranges. Novels are very linear-you go only where the author wants you to go. Doing the same thing in an rpg is usually called railroading. The PC's should be able to explore off the main path of the DM's story, even if there is nothing important for them to find.

I don't believe any room described well enough is "uninteresting". It may not have anything to do with the plot or contain anything useful for the PC's, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be included. It stands to reason that in an old abandoned temple every room is not going to contain something important to the story, but that is no reason not to describe it well.