George R.R. Martin novel news

[Vocenoctum]

I will say I'm not sure they actually add anything to the book. But, I think they are a great marketing gimick, because people feel they are reading "adult" fantasy, instead of kid fantasy. That isn't a slam on anyone, but trust me, that stuff is used to sell the books to adults. I could live without the scenes, I can certainly live with them.

Like I said, if that were the only detractor from the series, I'd... well, truthfully I'd probably still have lost interest after the long wait.
I picked them up at once, I didn't wait years to read them. I'd never heard of Martin before reading the books. I do think his influence is a bit over exaggerated in these kind of threads, but then most of the posters are probably pretty diehard fans.

 

[Mallus]

Whenever the subject of the 'gratuitous sex scenes in ASoIaF' comes up I get this disorienting 'Damn, did I wake up in an alternate universe again?' feeling... Did we read the same books?

I have a sneaking suspicion that the answer to that is 'no, no two people ever read the same book, because so much of a book isn't actually on the page'...

Nothing about the series struck me as particularly extreme, compared to other kinds of mainstream fiction. I have to wonder if objections to ASoIaF's content are due to the lingering misconception that fantasy is kiddie lit (which looks to be tacitly accepted by a lot of fantsay fans. Or it could just be that a signifigant number of fantasy readers don't like to read sex scenes). On the whole, fantasy is certainly a tamer genre than, say, thrillers, or horror, or police procedurals, or --gasp-- romances.

You want extreme? Samuel R. Delany's Dhalgren, published in 1974. One of the first SF novels to see 1,000,000 copies in print. And its marvelous, to boot.

 

[KaosDevice]

Just to mention it again, if you want a pretty obvious example of unneeded eroticisim in fantasy really you need look no farther then John Norman's Gor books...makes ASoFaI look pretty tightly constructed and purposeful by comparison.

 

[Dark Jezter]

I saw nothing profane or erotic about the scene. It made sense in the context in which it was delivered. I really don't see why or how "a weak stomach" enters into your quote at all.

Probably because I'd imagine that most people find incestuous menstral sex a tad on the disturbing side.

I expect that sex and menstruation is something that all adults - the target audience - are familiar with.

Familiar with, yes. Particularly enjoy reading about... well, it's pretty obvious from the responses in this thread that many people (myself included) would rather do without them.

It is scenes like this that break the cookie cutter elements of traditional fantasy and make GRRM's work stronger - not weaker.

The reason I've (mostly) enjoyed the series so far is because of the intriguing setting and characters. Not because of gratitious and mostly unneeded sex scenes that seem to occur every few chapters. You feel such scenes add to the story, but I feel that they definately detract from it.

 

[KenM]

Some people think its exessive sex, some people think its fine. It all depends on what each person thinks is exessive and if they think its important to the story.

 

[soulforge]

In my opinion just to chime in on the sex scenes I would say that Martin uses them in thematic ways that stay consistent to the story. That said, I don't mind a randomness to certain stories that occurs while not necessarily furthering the story more so than to cast light on characters. That's how I view some of the erotic scenes.. namely the greyjoy boatride chapter...

Another book that people highly argue about, and I'll point to as worse than Martin "although I still enjoy" is the Donaldson Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.

 

[Endur]

To be really honest, I kind of skip over the sex scenes and don't really notice them. I'm more interested in Eddard's flashbacks to Knights of Old and the Targaryen period.

I can see how some people would be offended by the sex scenes. And, this is yet another way that Martin reminds us that the Lannisters are the "Bad Guys", they even engage in bad sex (i.e. adultery, incest, prostitution, etc.).

Its as unfair to claim Martin's audience likes the sex scenes as it is unfair to claim that Martin's audience does not like the sex scenes. Martin's audience likes the books as a whole, there are obviously many parts in each book that each reader likes and does not like. Some like Jon, some do not, etc.

For myself, I tend to agree that the three main characters of the series are Dany, Jon, and Tyrion, which will make this next book somewhat interesting, since none of the three main characters are in it.

My guess is that Jaime will become a feature focus of the next book (i.e. the hero of the book) along with perhaps the Hound and Asha.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Good plotting, good characters, good story. I never really understood the sex scenes in the book. They didn't seem to move the plot all that often, and they're pretty gratuitous as well.

The one in the tower in "A Game of Thrones" is a huge plot point, actually. The ones with Daenyrs may or may not be relevant -- there hasn't been enough of her story told yet to know.

Milking literature is never a good idea.

There doesn't seem to be an ounce of fat in the actual plot. Not sure where the milking would be.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

If it's not called The Last Battle, I'll be shocked.

C.S. Lewis got there first and his books are often in the same section of the bookstore.

 

[Fast Learner]

While others of us find such scene's overused and excessive. Different strokes for different folks and all. It comes down to the age old question of whether such elements add more sales than they subtract.

I all comes down to what the author wants to depict, not what affects sales.

It's the total garbage (imo) of most D&D fiction that is the result of it all coming down to whether choices add more sales than they subtract. I know which series will still be read 100 years from now, and it sure isn't Hickman.