George RR Martin Update on his site

[ledded]

Rule #1 - Don't watch movies to learn history.
Rule #2 - Don't watch movies to find religion.
Rule #3 - Don't listen to Jessica Simpson telling me to vote. Do I really want all of Jessica Simpson's fans voting because she told them to and not because they feel that it is their duty to? Same applies to any "famous" person.

Oh, *so* agreed. I don't mind when celebrities speak out on a political issue that they may have some reasonable amount of research or experience with. I don't listen to it, agree with it, nor put up with it in any of my media sources, but hey at least they are executing thier right to free speech properly; I prefer to do actual research myself. It's the dingbats that blather on about a cause that are so detached from reality and anything remotely tangible to the average person that really get on my nerves; personally, some of these guys are darn close to the 'screaming fire in a crowded theater' example of how free speech is *not* guaranteed to you IMO, and there are a few that are in desperate need of the proverbial whack with a clue-by-four. Preferably with a rusty nail in it.

Of course, I'm also of a mind that if someone feels their opinion about an issue swayed just because someone famous spit out a sound bite about it, that's less a problem of the celebrity and more a problem of the person's inability or apathy towards thinking it through. Just my opinion.

There are reasons people don't talk about Religion and Politics. Everyone has an opinion, and their opinion is the right opinion.

Well, I've always felt that people shouldnt talk Religion and Politics in 'polite' situations not because everyone thinks they are right, but because too many people respond to a challenging idea with hostility and hurt feelings. I have plenty of folks I debate these things with that dont get upset when I disagree with them even when they think I'm completely full of it, because they're mature and open enough to be able to entertain my ideas without having to believe in them. But I also believe that the purpose of debate or discussion like that is not to convince another person that you are right, but to bolster or explore the depths of your own understanding/belief on the matter, and to possibly get an informed peek at the other side in the meantime.

Nice one Taky.

Agreed Taky, that was funny, and stated your opinion in an artistic way

As far as GGRM is concerned, I honestly could give a rat's patootey what he thinks or says politically. I hate that he's been so delayed with the book, and if this is one of the reasons I care about as much as any other reason he's given. I give him a little less respect just for not being able to show a little personal restraint (and for being such a public freakin' drama queen ), but that's not going to lose him any sleep either, because you know what, GRRM doesnt care what some guy on ENWorld thinks about him one blinkin' bit . I just wish he'd finish the book before I completely lose interest in it altogether.

 

[Fast Learner]

Of course, I'm also of a mind that if someone feels their opinion about an issue swayed just because someone famous spit out a sound bite about it, that's less a problem of the celebrity and more a problem of the person's inability or apathy towards thinking it through.

And that's the key, imo. I think anyone -- star or not -- should be welcome to express his/her political opinion, and in fact has a certain duty to do so. Yet if you base your own conclusions exclusively on the fact that someone famous said it, you're just being idiotic.

 

[CrusaderX]

The only way we as a society will ever be able to talk rationally and peaceably about our political and spiritual beliefs is to learn to be tolerant of each others' viewpoints

And that's the problem right there. It really sounded as if Martin wasn't tolerant of other viewpoints. He basically insinuated that those who voted for Bush were ignorant, bigoted, etc. That is why people have lost respect for him. Not for speaking out, but for demonizing those with different beliefs than his own.

 

[Fast Learner]

I appreciate that, but people -- Martin included -- won't learn to be tolerant without a period of uncomfortable intolerance, a period where we remind each other to be civil.

For example, I participate in a board online where we actually discuss politics and religion all the time. When we discuss politics we have people from the left, the right, the up, the down, you name it. We have people from Europe with their political perspectives, people who are pistol-shootin' Texans, people from other parts of the world, too. When we discuss religion we have athiests, Christians (of many stripes, including various Protestants, Catholics, Jehovahs Witnesses, and Mormons), Jews, one Muslim, a variety of Buddhists and New Agers, Wiccans, and more.

And yup, early on it was tough to discuss things peacefully. But for the last several years our conversations are almost entirely completely respectful, with no one attacking each other at all. Is it perfect? No, but it's really amazing. Yet we would never have reached that point without going through some discomfort first, with people hanging in there even though the signal-to-noise ratio wasn't the greatest for a while. Now, though, we can discuss anything peacefully, and we do.

I firmly believe the same is true of society as a whole. Yes, at the beginning there will be intolerance and discomfort, and a certain amount of that will probably never go away. But today's world, where you're not allowed to talk about the things that most affect your life and happiness, is highly disfunctional, and keeping quiet isn't going to fix it.

 

[CrusaderX]

Discussion is good. But Martin wasn't discussing. He insulted 50% (or 51% ) of Americans, in a one-sided format that talked at them, not with them.

 

[Fast Learner]

It's easy to point and say, "He's so intolerant" when someone presents his opinion, yet it is the very essence of intolerance to do that pointing. Tolerance begins when people aren't upset by others' intolerant viewpoints, not in waiting for people to say something nice.

 

[Nifft]

People, please.

Disagreement isn't insult. If I think you are doing a stupid thing, that's different from calling you stupid.

If people were "right" too often, we'd run out of innovation any day now. I don't think there's much danger of that.

So, lots of room for discussion.

-- N

 

[RyanL]

It's easy to point and say, "He's so intolerant" when someone presents his opinion, yet it is the very essence of intolerance to do that pointing. Tolerance begins when people aren't upset by others' intolerant viewpoints, not in waiting for people to say something nice.

I think you've confused tolerance and acceptance. Don't you watch South Park?

Lemmywinks, Lemmywinks...

 

[jasamcarl]

Discussion is good. But Martin wasn't discussing. He insulted 50% (or 51% ) of Americans, in a one-sided format that talked at them, not with them.

Wow, you must hate most blogs then. While most acknowledge other viewpoints (as Martin has when referencing the letters), bloggers don't tend to directly engage others in discussion.

So, you're notion of what is acceptable discourse would be for those who have strong beliefs to never air them unless they can be directly challenged and engaged in a constant back and forth.

Please..he was airing his opinion. What you are really upset about is not the way he aired it, but his actual opinion. Fair enough, but don't be so quick to claim the high ground next time.

And yes, he believes that 51% of the voting public was wrong. I'm sorry you couldn't have what some consider very dumb descicion immediatly validated; in fact, it sounds like you really are on the defensive. As others have said, there is a distinction to be drawn between the believers and the beliefs.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I hate starting series of books when they are not finished. When I started them I thought this was going to be a trilogy

I hear ya their... Not so much with modern day fiction novels, but with fantasy novels it’s a killer… I usually don’t touch a series until the last novel has been out for a year… (By then you can find out from the net how many books it’s going to be…)

They’re so many good books/series out there that you’re really not hurting yourself with reading something “older”.