Geriatric Grumbling

[Drifter Bob]

Well, that's only if you want people to actually buy it and make money. There have been adult oriented d20 products. Not a lot, and they really haven't been that great but people have tried to make them.

Most of what I have seen, without naming names, have been gratuitous attempts to exploit some "adult themes" which are left out of D&D, not what I am aiming for. To continue with the TV analogy, a few examples of "porkys", which is not what I'm looking for. Grown up yes, gratuitous, no.

One company I have liked is Avalanche press. I don't like the cheesecake covers too much, but several of their historical pieces were very real and adult, at least on the background. (thier Celtic World book and their suppliment on Vlad the Impaler are good examples) In looking at them however, you can see how the DnD game rules part of these suppliments seem a little less hard edged and realistic; more politically correct, and more oriented toward teenage boys (like their unfortunate covers).

DB

 

[Crothian]

One company I have liked is Avalanche press. I don't like the cheesecake covers too much, but several of their historical pieces were very real and adult, at least on the background. (thier Celtic World book and their suppliment on Vlad the Impaler are good examples) In looking at them however, you can see how the DnD game rules part of these suppliments seem a little less hard edged and realistic; more politically correct, and more oriented toward teenage boys (like their unfortunate covers).

DB

Also note, they don't make d20 books anymore. I have most of their stuff, I really like it but it did not sale.

 

[Drifter Bob]

Also note, they don't make d20 books anymore. I have most of their stuff, I really like it but it did not sale.

And the reason for that might very well be because they were trying to market their stuff toward 14 yeard old boys...

DB

 

[Drifter Bob]

Well, if nothing else, it seems like there are a lot of people over 30 playing DnD

DB

 

[d4]

i'm over 30, and i prefer to GM (and play in) "PG" or at most "PG-13" style games.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'll be 37 in October, and can use D20 to make a campaign as juvenile or mature as I wish. I don't think an "adult" version is neccessary.

 

[EricNoah]

I think D&D is fine as it is; there's certainly room for all flavors and styles within its framework, and I think flavor/style ultimately should be dealt wth at the campaign setting level, not at the core rules level. Now, if you ask me should there be a grimmer/grittier/more-shades-of-gray campaign setting and I'll say "sure, that sounds like fun." Oh, and as per the poll I'm 30+.

 

[Ourph]

I DON'T want a D&D that feels like an HBO soap opera! ::shudder::

I DON'T want a D&D that dwells on mundane day to day issues.

I ESPECIALLY DON'T want a D&D that deals with more romantic issues (you should see some of the hairy unbathed miscreants I game with! :: double shudder :: ).

What I do want is a D&D that creates a game with the same kind of pulp swords and sorcery feel of Leiber, Howard and Burroughs. The kind of game where evil is DIABOLICALLY EVIL!!!!! The kind of game where "good" doesn't mean "angst-ridden indecisive pseudo-hippiedom" but instead means "the people and things I kill violently, deserve to be killed violently". The kind of game where the only REAL motivations a character needs for adventuring are
1) Gotta earn my drinkin' and whorin' money; and
2) If I weren't killing monsters and stealing their stuff I'd have to get a REAL JOB!!!

I want a D&D where the rules get out of the way when I'm playing and let me exercise my imagination (rather than my memorization).

I want a D&D where the rulebooks demonstrate an implicit trust in the ability and fairness of the DM, rather than an implicit distrust.

I want a D&D that knows it's a FREAKIN GAME, and doesn't try to be a mathematical and textual model of reality or (even worse) a framework for freeform improvisational storytelling.

I don't know if that's what most people would call "mature" or not. Probably not. Then again, labelling any form of entertainment that requires grown men to sit around a table pretending to be elves, dwarves and halflings "mature" seems like a stretch.

 

[Wombat]

I think, due to the OGL, that the potential exists for more "mature" games out there. Whether that means moral ambiguity, existential horror, open sexuality, or whatnot, however, is a matter of taste -- I find Green Ronin's Testament, for example, to be a "mature" game, much more so than WW's V:tM, but that is a personal take.

In other words, one person's "mature" is another person's "boring", "sexist", "overly graphic" or "too intellectual".

YMMV

 

[Drifter Bob]

I DON'T want a D&D that feels like an HBO soap opera! ::shudder::

have you ever seen one?

The kind of game where evil is DIABOLICALLY EVIL!!!!! The kind of game where "good" doesn't mean "angst-ridden indecisive pseudo-hippiedom" but instead means "the people and things I kill violently, deserve to be killed violently". The kind of game where the only REAL motivations a character needs for adventuring are
1) Gotta earn my drinkin' and whorin' money; and
2) If I weren't killing monsters and stealing their stuff I'd have to get a REAL JOB!!!

Sounds a lot like Deadwood or Carnivale to me...

I want a D&D where the rules get out of the way when I'm playing and let me exercise my imagination (rather than my memorization).

I want a D&D where the rulebooks demonstrate an implicit trust in the ability and fairness of the DM, rather than an implicit distrust.

These are very, very good points and do fall within the realm of what I was talking about.

I want a D&D that knows it's a FREAKIN GAME, and doesn't try to be a mathematical and textual model of reality or (even worse) a framework for freeform improvisational storytelling.

Whats wrong with improvisational storytelling? Isn't that pretty much what the RP in RPG stands for?

I don't know if that's what most people would call "mature" or not. Probably not. Then again, labelling any form of entertainment that requires grown men to sit around a table pretending to be elves, dwarves and halflings "mature" seems like a stretch.

I think it's in the ballpark. I may not have expressed my vision so well (I think it should be a pretty broad field) but I think Fafrhed and Grey mouser dealt with a lot of both Romance (almost constantly) and mundane day to day life issues....

DB