Getting thrown into an Iron Maiden

[daemonslye]

From 1E Rules Module (Hall of the Fire Giant King):

The Torturer will attempt to grab his opponent and throw him or her into the iron maiden (position shown by a circle A) and slam it shut (causing 10 to 100 hit points of damage to the victim and trapping him or her therein until released). This requires a "to hit" score success (which indicates that the grab and hurl score were successful) plus another successful "to hit" score, this time at +4, to slam the device shut.

I am converting this to 3.5E rules (in rather more detail than I have seen elsewhere) and need some advice how to adjucate the above actions. If I break it down:

CONDITIONS: Giant and victim ("the adventurer", a medium-sized humanoid) are 40 feet from the iron maiden.

1. On his turn the giant ("The Torturer") announces a grapple attempt vs the victim as the first attack in a full attack series
2. Victim gets an AOO (assuming no special grapple feats known by the giant)
3. If AOO is unsuccessful, the giant makes a melee touch attack
4. If the giant hits, he attempts a grapple, opposed grapple checks are rolled
4a. The fire giant gets a grapple check of +25 (+11 BAB, +10 str, +4 size)
5. If the giant wins, they are grappling (and giant brings oppenent into his square);
6. The giant can then use another attack/move action to use the "move" grapple action to move the victim 15' toward the iron maiden
7. The giant is done for the round (the "move" is now counted as the giant's move action for the round as PHB p.56. "Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action)." I assume "Some" are only the actions that are actually attack-like such as "pin" or "damage"
QUESTION #1: If the giant had already used two attack actions and wanted to chose "move" as the third could he actually move? I would not think so.
8. Assuming the victim is not free by the beginning of the giant's next turn, the giant could move once upon a successful grapple check (moving within 10' of the maiden)
9. Because the giant had used a move action already, the giant could not then toss the victim in the maiden and close the door in the same round. So the giant might damage or pin the victim instead until next round (assuming he does not want to release the victim until he is sure of being able to close the door to the maiden)
QUESTION #2: If the giant uses the "move" graple action, I assume he has given up his "full attack" action and only has one standard action left to him. Correct?
10. Assuming the victim is not free by the beginning of the giant's next turn, release the victim in the maiden (does not require a grapple check) and then close the door doing damage
QUESTION #3: There are no rules to cover a grappler choosing the square where their opponent is released. I would assume to choose the square, this could require a successful grapple check. Correct?
QUESTION #4: Closing a door, lid, whatever (like a coffin or, in this case, an iron maiden) on a wriggling opponent feels like more than a move-equivalent action. Lets call it an attack action; If this is the case, should the opponent get a check or save to escape (feels like a reflex save or grapple check). If a reflex save, what would be a reasonable DC? This is a high level module and given the circumstances, I am thinking a DC of 15+. I would assume movement on the part of the victim would provoke an AOO (possibly ending up in another grapple).

The whole situation is much more complicated given the intricacies of D20 and favors the PC in this case (more chances to avoid the trap and damage); Thinking it over, the giant would likely lead with a bull rush (would this cause the giant to give up his full attack action? seems like it) to get the PC nearer to the maiden before grappeling.

Any other thoughts/ideas? Thanks in advice.

~D

 

[Stormrunner]

40 feet? That's a considerable distance.
Consider simplifying things by just having the giant Bull Rush the PC into the iron maiden.
Being thrown/pushed into the IM should do immediate damage, even before the lid slams, as the PC is violently contacting a bed of spikes. Say 5d4 or thereabouts (many small spikes = many small dice). Then, on the PCs turn, they can expend a move action to make either a Reflex save or an opposed Dex check (DM's choice) to jump out of the IM before the giant can slam it.
I'd say slamming the IM shut is a move action for the giant, but opening it again (for a second try) is a standard action, as he has to fiddle with the catch.

 

[Bauglir]

There's no check involved in leaving the iron maiden, but the giant could use the inevitable AoO to bullrush the victim back in (or grapple him, or something similar)

 

[dcollins]

In my conversion of module G3, I just called both the throw-in and the slam-shut separate grapple attack actions.

Therefore with 3 attacks he could, in a single round, grapple to (1) make initial hold, (2) throw-in, (3) slam-shut. My assumption would be that the giant needs to be within reach of the iron maiden to make this happen.

 

[daemonslye]

Thanks dcollins - Here is what I have so far. I am thinking the PC
thrown into the maiden may get a save to hop out before getting
entrapped. So, once within range, the giant needs only two successful
grapples, (1) to get a hold, (2) to throw in, and the slam-shut is
a reflex save for the PC. Seems kind of complicated, but gives dexterous
PCs a better chance to stay in the fight. Also, given the tactics, and
background, I am thinking the Torturer may have imp grapple and its
prereqs (wouldn't want to damage those reserved for special attention...
the sword is just there to take care of rats.).

~D


Hall of the Fire Giant King; 3.5 Conversion Text:

The Torturer will attempt to bull rush his opponent toward the giant-sized iron maiden then grapple them. If the giant has successfully grappled, and they are within 10’ of the iron maiden, the giant can attempt to release the victim in the iron maiden and shut the lid (this will require two attack actions). The giant must make a successful grapple check and the victim will get a Reflex save (DC 18) to escape the maiden before being locked in (if the save is made, the victim is standing adjacent to the iron maiden). If thrown into the iron maiden, the PC will take 5d4 hp of damage. If the door is slammed shut with the PC inside, they will take 2d10/5d10/10d10 hp of damage if small/medium/large with a Reflex save (DC 18) for half. The giant must use a standard action (and have nothing in his hands) to open the iron maiden again to ready it for a victim once it has been closed. If the Headsman is closely pressed, he will attempt to bull rush his opponent into the 110’ deep well (position shown by a circled letter B), thus inflicting 5d6 of lethal damage and 2d3 of nonlethal damage (less damage due to 20’ of water at the bottom of the well) and trapping the victim, possibly to drown. The Torturer will likewise follow this course of attacking, pushing as many victims as possible down the well until the room is cleared of opponents.

 

[the Jester]

The Book of Vile Darkness actually has rules for iron maidens (though not, admittedly, for throwing someone into one). Basically you can set it on low, moderate, severe or terminal; the settings do 1, 5, 10 and 50 hp per round respectively (note that the 'terminal' setting triggers a save vs. massive damage).

Actually, that 50 points sounds pretty close to the 10d10 in G3.

Anyway, I do think that the victim should get some kind of save or check to escape or whatever, but the 50 hp- owie!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Basically you can set it on low, moderate, severe or terminal; the settings do 1, 5, 10 and 50 hp per round respectively (note that the 'terminal' setting triggers a save vs. massive damage).

[CountRugen]Not to fifty![/CountRugen]

-Hyp.

 

[rkanodia]

[CountRugen]Not to fifty![/CountRugen]

-Hyp.

Boy, and my torture device only goes to 11...

 

[The Souljourner]

*lol* Ahh, the Pit of Despair.

You might look into Races of Stone - it has a feat called Fling Enemy You pick up and hurl an enemy like hurled boulders. Would work perfectly in this case.

And I think you should roll 10d10. Flat 50 is boring... 10d10 is a crapload of really big dice, and is a heck of a lot scarier

-The Souljourner

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Also check out the Awesome Blow feat from the MM.