James McMurray
First Post
One last bump. The game's this Sunday, so I figured I'd see if there were any last minute suggestions or comments on the current tactics.
Thanks
Thanks
Giant defense
Wolf72
Explorer
okay I don't mean to throw another wrench into the loops, but I find that invisible ogre magi with their cold ray's can be great at ambushes.
I gave a -2 circumstance to the reflex save because of invis.
another idea: give all your giants some decent armor and weapons ... think of 'em like really big PC's
I gave a -2 circumstance to the reflex save because of invis.
another idea: give all your giants some decent armor and weapons ... think of 'em like really big PC's
jasper
Rotten DM
Let the giants and other villians wear iron boots.
Then catrops. Hall ways could be blocked with portable barriers. Say about 8 feet high giving 1/4 cover to 1/2 cover to giant.
Let them fly. Boulder away at range of 200 plus feet. ouch. Concerate on non armour folks first.
Boiling oil on top of tower or in tower thru murder holes.
ballista nest.
Then catrops. Hall ways could be blocked with portable barriers. Say about 8 feet high giving 1/4 cover to 1/2 cover to giant.
Let them fly. Boulder away at range of 200 plus feet. ouch. Concerate on non armour folks first.
Boiling oil on top of tower or in tower thru murder holes.
ballista nest.
Gargoyle
Adventurer
You'll need to figure out the hardness and hit points of the boulder nets, or the Strength DC to break through them, since they have a good round or more to do something before hitting the ground. (As well as the DC modifiers to Concentration checks for casting spells while in the net, as being grappled I suppose.)
If you really want to prepare, run a mock combat by yourself before the game. It takes a lot of time, but I try to do it before any complex, critical fight, and you'll find yourself avoiding potential problems.
If you really want to prepare, run a mock combat by yourself before the game. It takes a lot of time, but I try to do it before any complex, critical fight, and you'll find yourself avoiding potential problems.
James McMurray
First Post
Wolf72: Thanks for he suggestion, but the available combatants are already laid out. If the group takes too long, the giants will definitely call in reinforcements.
jasper: Caltrops would be cool. Add that to the shopping list if the giants have more time to react. Heck, I'd be willing to bet that a +8 natural armor bonus is fairly close to iron boots.
Gargoyle: the nets would be hardness and hp as thick ropes, and otherwise count as being grappled. They don't really have all that long to react though, just one round before hitting the ground. Its plenty of time to escape if they're smart about it, but I'll also be sure to count down during the falling round, and if they haven't decided on a course of action within 10 seconds, they're screwed.
I really wish I had the time for a mock combat. Could I interest you in a short-term babysitting gig?
jasper: Caltrops would be cool. Add that to the shopping list if the giants have more time to react. Heck, I'd be willing to bet that a +8 natural armor bonus is fairly close to iron boots.
Gargoyle: the nets would be hardness and hp as thick ropes, and otherwise count as being grappled. They don't really have all that long to react though, just one round before hitting the ground. Its plenty of time to escape if they're smart about it, but I'll also be sure to count down during the falling round, and if they haven't decided on a course of action within 10 seconds, they're screwed.
I really wish I had the time for a mock combat. Could I interest you in a short-term babysitting gig?
Consider our good simple friend silence. With a will save and being only 2nd level, it really isn't optimal to cast on enemy casters.
It is great to cast on the people meeling with an enemy caster. Especially if they have reach. ESPECIALLY if they are grappling said caster. Like, say, a flying troll. A flying, grappling troll. If the target doesn't have stilled silence speels ready, they're in trouble (Kids, this why you should always have a Silent Teleport.) I recommend using this against the cleric, as many sorcerors get metamagic feats for just such a situation.
Don't tip your hand too soon about the flying ability. Then swarn a spellcaster with a ton of the trolls. Remember that they can flank in three dimnesions (but they are large( tall) so they do take up two vertical squares.) I think 4 can grapple at one time. Have the rest tear away.
Consider the joys of Giant furniture. Giant chairs to through, gant tables for cover, Giant pots to scour the flesh of you food/foes...
Pielherino (sp?) had a good point a few days ago about high AC characters. Once you grapple them, it's pretty easy to dorwn them. A 6 foot stew pot sounds perfect for the job. If nothing else, you can throw the water as a ranged touch attack for a bit of heat damage.
Let us know how this turns out.
It is great to cast on the people meeling with an enemy caster. Especially if they have reach. ESPECIALLY if they are grappling said caster. Like, say, a flying troll. A flying, grappling troll. If the target doesn't have stilled silence speels ready, they're in trouble (Kids, this why you should always have a Silent Teleport.) I recommend using this against the cleric, as many sorcerors get metamagic feats for just such a situation.
Don't tip your hand too soon about the flying ability. Then swarn a spellcaster with a ton of the trolls. Remember that they can flank in three dimnesions (but they are large( tall) so they do take up two vertical squares.) I think 4 can grapple at one time. Have the rest tear away.
Consider the joys of Giant furniture. Giant chairs to through, gant tables for cover, Giant pots to scour the flesh of you food/foes...
Pielherino (sp?) had a good point a few days ago about high AC characters. Once you grapple them, it's pretty easy to dorwn them. A 6 foot stew pot sounds perfect for the job. If nothing else, you can throw the water as a ranged touch attack for a bit of heat damage.
Let us know how this turns out.
James McMurray
First Post
Ok, I meant to update the tactics before posting that last message. Sorry about that. Here's the current version.
The Cleric will summon an Osyluth via Lesser Planar Ally. She will also use divination to determine if the party will be flying up or teleporting in. The Osyluth will cast fly on all of the defenders, and animate dead on the fallen giants.
Previously cast spells:
fly on all combatants
endurance x _ on cleric and fire giants (depends on
how many free slots the cleric has)
3rd level pro-elements (lightning) on cleric and __ giants
(again depends on number of free slots)
bless
silence on two trolls
The 5 surviving fire giants (4 plus cleric) will hurl boulder nets at the party on their ascent up. Ranged touch attack, grapple check if it hits. The giants will use their BAB, the nets will be considered large, and have a +4 strength mod. I may use double the amount the giant beats the touch AC by as the BAB for the grapple check though. If you're successfully grappled, you plummet. 670' in the first round, the remainder of the distance to the ground in the second. Nets have hardness and hp as per thick rope, and count as grappled.
Once the party is near the top, the giants move inside the tower, and head up the stairs. Meanwhile, the invisible Osyluth creates illusions of them fleeing towards the para-elemental's room, in order to hopefully lure them into freeing it and having to fight it. The illusion will show the sealed doors slamming shut (complete with sound). If the party messes with the doors, they'll release the para-elemental.
While the party tries to break down the door to the upstairs or come in another route, the giants will head upstairs. They'll prepare the boulder trap then, and wait until the party gets near the top.
Once its sprung, they'll head to the top of their lair, where the Trolls will be ready to attack the party and try to grapple / jump them off the ledge. The Zombies will also be here, and will attempt to grab and drag away the "blond guy in chainmail." If they can grab him, they'll move to jump off ot the cliff.
If the party flees again, the giants will summon another Osyluth (or other Lesser Planar Ally, I'll have to look and see what's available). The current one has been contracted to help defend the lair for one month, and will be leaving on Planting 14 (27 days from the battle's date), taking the cleric with him for one month's service in hell.
Total combatants available:
Cleric: Will do whatever she can to ensure that people
die as rapidly as possible. This will generally involve
using her huge greatsword to smack people as her
ofensive spells were very ineffective the last time
they fought. She does have a keen greatsword and
improved crit, so she can deal some massive
damage.
4 Fire Giants: Two will disarm the paladin and bull rush
him away from the weapon.
One will ready attacks at the sorceror (charging if
necessary)
One will either attack the cleric, or ready attacks
against him (charging if necessary)
If any giant is dropped below 30 ht points but
survives, he will attempt to grab whoever is
closest and run off the cliff with that person.
The party has already shown that they don't
allow giants to flee, so running wouldn't do
any good.
7 Large Zombies: will try to grapple the cleric and leap
off the cliff with him. Probably won't be
successful, but will certainly distract him.
6 Trolls: will try to grapple the party members (two on
each) and leap off the cliff with them. Silenced
trolls will focus on the sorceror and cleric.
Osyluth: will remain invisible, using walls of ice to divide
and conquer, and dimensional anchor to
prevent escape. If someone gets disarmed, he
will try to move to get teh weapon if possible.
The Cleric will summon an Osyluth via Lesser Planar Ally. She will also use divination to determine if the party will be flying up or teleporting in. The Osyluth will cast fly on all of the defenders, and animate dead on the fallen giants.
Previously cast spells:
fly on all combatants
endurance x _ on cleric and fire giants (depends on
how many free slots the cleric has)
3rd level pro-elements (lightning) on cleric and __ giants
(again depends on number of free slots)
bless
silence on two trolls
The 5 surviving fire giants (4 plus cleric) will hurl boulder nets at the party on their ascent up. Ranged touch attack, grapple check if it hits. The giants will use their BAB, the nets will be considered large, and have a +4 strength mod. I may use double the amount the giant beats the touch AC by as the BAB for the grapple check though. If you're successfully grappled, you plummet. 670' in the first round, the remainder of the distance to the ground in the second. Nets have hardness and hp as per thick rope, and count as grappled.
Once the party is near the top, the giants move inside the tower, and head up the stairs. Meanwhile, the invisible Osyluth creates illusions of them fleeing towards the para-elemental's room, in order to hopefully lure them into freeing it and having to fight it. The illusion will show the sealed doors slamming shut (complete with sound). If the party messes with the doors, they'll release the para-elemental.
While the party tries to break down the door to the upstairs or come in another route, the giants will head upstairs. They'll prepare the boulder trap then, and wait until the party gets near the top.
Once its sprung, they'll head to the top of their lair, where the Trolls will be ready to attack the party and try to grapple / jump them off the ledge. The Zombies will also be here, and will attempt to grab and drag away the "blond guy in chainmail." If they can grab him, they'll move to jump off ot the cliff.
If the party flees again, the giants will summon another Osyluth (or other Lesser Planar Ally, I'll have to look and see what's available). The current one has been contracted to help defend the lair for one month, and will be leaving on Planting 14 (27 days from the battle's date), taking the cleric with him for one month's service in hell.
Total combatants available:
Cleric: Will do whatever she can to ensure that people
die as rapidly as possible. This will generally involve
using her huge greatsword to smack people as her
ofensive spells were very ineffective the last time
they fought. She does have a keen greatsword and
improved crit, so she can deal some massive
damage.
4 Fire Giants: Two will disarm the paladin and bull rush
him away from the weapon.
One will ready attacks at the sorceror (charging if
necessary)
One will either attack the cleric, or ready attacks
against him (charging if necessary)
If any giant is dropped below 30 ht points but
survives, he will attempt to grab whoever is
closest and run off the cliff with that person.
The party has already shown that they don't
allow giants to flee, so running wouldn't do
any good.
7 Large Zombies: will try to grapple the cleric and leap
off the cliff with him. Probably won't be
successful, but will certainly distract him.
6 Trolls: will try to grapple the party members (two on
each) and leap off the cliff with them. Silenced
trolls will focus on the sorceror and cleric.
Osyluth: will remain invisible, using walls of ice to divide
and conquer, and dimensional anchor to
prevent escape. If someone gets disarmed, he
will try to move to get teh weapon if possible.
gubaru
First Post
Re: the trolls
If you're worried about the PCs breaking out the fire spells for the trolls, you could make them fiendish. The 10-point reduction from fire damage probably won't make a big difference against characters of their level but it might keep the trolls alive for an extra round or two.
If you're worried about the PCs breaking out the fire spells for the trolls, you could make them fiendish. The 10-point reduction from fire damage probably won't make a big difference against characters of their level but it might keep the trolls alive for an extra round or two.
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