TSR Giantlands

[Snarf Zagyg]

You laugh, but there's been more than one debate on these boards about how psionics is/isn't "magic" and people could get hot around the collar about the distinction. Things have cooled down a bit in the past couple of years, but I remember when it was a Big Deal.

That's been a debate since the beginning of D&D; famously, Gygax was always lukewarm (at best) about the inclusion of psionics, from OD&D to the AD&D appendix.

 

[Yora]

But I don't know where they are coming from, with that whole "Dark Sun is science fiction" angle. Words mean things, and I don't think they read up on what sci-fi means.

The ignorant plebs call Star Wars science fiction...

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The ignorant plebs call Star Wars science fiction...

That's right! Us patricians know that it's science FACT.

A long time ago ... that's straight-up HISTORY!

 

[billd91]

Yes and no. I don't think people generally knew about him being abusive to partners, but everyone who frequented the same online gaming circles as him was generally aware how hostile, combative, and nasty he was in online arguments. But folks were incentivized to look past that for a few reasons, including but not limited to:

1. His personal charm and effusive warmth to people he liked.
2. His massive output of creative and appealing game content and art.
3. His employment of strong moral language and adept use of the DARVO method.

There's also culture in general, internet culture in specific.
Flame wars are a significant aspect of internet culture and if a hostile douchebag like ZakS got you riled up with his combativeness, that was your own fault for not out flamewarring him. He simply won the exchange.
And with respect to culture in general, if you take offense at something, that's your reaction and you should be in control of that if someone is provocative either by being an asshat, working with controversial material, etc. Maybe you choose to steer around him and his work, but simply being an asshat doesn't necessarily justify not letting him work in the industry.
If your memory is right that his general demeanor was known but depths of his crimes not, either or both of those are also reasonable explanations why he was tolerated as long as he was.

 

[Gradine]

I don't like Gradine's casual dismissal of thoughtful posts, and find it unhelpful. But I understand the anger, but that's why I didn't engage further. I explained, and I'm done.

I don't like being referred to like I'm not here.

A post can be verbose without being thoughtful, and it can be thoughtful without being worth responding to.

There has been a concerted effort on this board to defend and excuse Ernie Jr. and Jim Ward by trying to explain their behavior and associations away, and I'm frankly sick of the pity party coming out for people who have deliberately thrown me and mine under the bus.

This thread was all set to welcome Ward back with open arms and not so much as a slap in the wrist and I'll be damned if I let that happen, because that would just demonstrate how little this community actually cares about people like me.

I'm not going to be casually dismissed or shamed by people without skin in the game "just asking questions". It's very nice for you that you can decide whether or not to engage. I wonder what that might feel like

 

[Gradine]

And now we're engaging in historical revisionism to defend Zak S.

I'm so fcking tired

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I don't like being referred to like I'm not here.

A post can be verbose without being thoughtful, and it can be thoughtful without being worth responding to.

There has been a concerted effort on this board to defend and excuse Ernie Jr. and Jim Ward by trying to explain their behavior and associations away, and I'm frankly sick of the pity party coming out for people who have deliberately thrown me and mine under the bus.

This thread was all set to welcome Ward back with open arms and not so much as a slap in the wrist and I'll be damned if I let that happen, because that would just demonstrate how little this community actually cares about people like me.

I'm not going to be casually dismissed or shamed by people without skin in the game "just asking questions". It's very nice for you that you can decide whether or not to engage. I wonder what that might feel like

I didn't speak about you like you're not here; I am not part of any concerted effort to excuse anyone. I have not (and would not) speak up to excuse Ernie Jr.

And I was very explicit about what and why I was saying what I was saying with regard to Jim Ward.

It is possible for this community to both support inclusivity, and to also be concerned that one of the seminal founders of the game (who also was responsible for the most queer-positive character in the game's early history) may either be used by others, may still be diminished in some capacities (for both health and financial reasons), or have been sucked up into the madness that we've seen other people fall prey to. That does not excuse his actions- it is, in fact, possible to worry about someone who is doing bad things.

I'm sorry you don't get that, but your attacks on me are unwarranted and unkind, and your final paragraph directed toward me is beyond the pale.

 

[Gradine]

I didn't speak about you like you're not here; I am not part of any concerted effort to excuse anyone. I have not (and would not) speak up to excuse Ernie Jr.

And I was very explicit about what and why I was saying what I was saying with regard to Jim Ward.

It is possible for this community to both support inclusivity, and to also be concerned that one of the seminal founders of the game (who also was responsible for the most queer-positive character in the game's early history) may either be used by others, may still be diminished in some capacities (for both health and financial reasons), or have been sucked up into the madness that we've seen other people fall prey to. That does not excuse his actions- it is, in fact, possible to worry about someone who is doing bad things.

I'm sorry you don't get that, but your attacks on me are unwarranted and unkind, and your final paragraph directed toward me is beyond the pale.

And I'm sorry that you don't get why "worrying about someone who is doing bad things" is a hell of a lot easier when those bad things don't directly affect you.

It is a slap in the face when more ink is spilled in defense of the man than for his victims. Do you get that?

 

[CleverNickName]

@Snarf Zagyg But can you see how your point of view on this topic might hit differently to someone a little closer to the issue? Not everyone gets to choose to be a casual, philosophical observer on topics of trans rights and equal representation. This is a very real, personal struggle for many people. Statements like "it's possible to be both supportive and concerned" can sound really insensitive and dismissive...even if that wasn't the intent.

 

[Steampunkette]

You laugh, but there's been more than one debate on these boards about how psionics is/isn't "magic" and people could get hot around the collar about the distinction. Things have cooled down a bit in the past couple of years, but I remember when it was a Big Deal.

But I don't know where they are coming from, with that whole "Dark Sun is science fiction" angle. Words mean things, and I don't think they read up on what sci-fi means.

Here's my thing on Psionics: It's not magic. Unless it's the only supernatural power, in which case it might as well just be magic.

Magic exists within a storyline as a set of rules and functions that are separate from normal physics and mortal capability. A mortal can learn to use magic to jump 90ft in the air and land safely, but a mortal cannot learn to -just- jump 90ft in the air and land safely. Supernatural power, in a nutshell. Whether from a Metaphysical Source or some Physical Source or whatever, it breaks physics as we understand it.

These rules and functions tend to be things like magic words you recite, special gestures, icons or items that you use to either direct the magic or as sacrifices to the magic, and it's typically organized into a series of different "Spells" which are basically a how-to guide with specific outcomes.

Psionics, or indeed any other supernatural force that is "Not Magic", exist outside of Magic as it has been previously defined. And are thus separate from magic. Another force in the story. They don't follow the same rules as Magic, often shunning the use of words, gestures, and icons or sacrificed objects or creatures, because this sets them apart even when their "Powers" are basically still "Spells".

You could then bring in Ley Power as a third force which is "Not Magic" but still fulfills the supernatural functions of magic through a different set of rules. Maybe this one has words and gestures, but not "Spells" at all and instead it's practically a firehose of power you just kind of direct at different levels of intensity or something.

Because once you have the rules defined on what Magic is you can define other things as different because X, Y, Z reasons. But without "Magic" you cannot really have "Not Magic" supernatural power. Because Magic is practically the baseline human understanding of "Doesn't conform to physics".