Ginger-ism

[Umbran]

Can a joke turn into real discrimination?

In my personal experience, it has seemed more that jokes are instead a sign of direct or latent discrimination. Your'e unlikely to poke fun of a group unless you've already figured out that group is "not us".

And, for the ginger thing - Morrus mentions a migration of Scots in the 1970s. Not that I'm a scholar of British history, but the Irish are also known for their redheads, and the Irish Independence movement was pretty violent, and ran for decades. Might no the anti-redhead thing be a vestige of that?

 

[Janx]

Who's we? Blonde jokes are still pretty ubiquitous.

And no: blonde jokes say what they say. There is no hidden meaning of sexism behind it.

and there ya go. If you and I work in the same company, and you think blonde jokes are just jokes and you keep telling them at work, you're looking at shortening your time in the Paycheck Contiuation Program.

Just as its annoying as ZB says that some issues get made up into big deals, failure to realize something has offensive meaning to other people is also bad.

 

[Desdichado]

and there ya go. If you and I work in the same company, and you think blonde jokes are just jokes and you keep telling them at work, you're looking at shortening your time in the Paycheck Contiuation Program.

First off, I made no claim to what I think or do or what kind of jokes I tell. I said that in our society blonde jokes are still ubiquitous. Let's not connect dots that I've been explicit to not connect.

Just as its annoying as ZB says that some issues get made up into big deals, failure to realize something has offensive meaning to other people is also bad.

Here I'll add my own opinion on something: Sure, of course it's bad. Then again, I have little patience for the modern grievance industry that looks for any excuse at all to claim that "hey, I'm a victim and I'm offended" and then launch on a crusade. There's a happy medium between callous disregard for the feelings of others, and weaponized victimhood, and we have to be careful not to imply that it's a binary choice between the two, because clearly its not. By the same token, one is not the "cure" for the other.

 

[billd91]

And, for the ginger thing - Morrus mentions a migration of Scots in the 1970s. Not that I'm a scholar of British history, but the Irish are also known for their redheads, and the Irish Independence movement was pretty violent, and ran for decades. Might no the anti-redhead thing be a vestige of that?

Possibly. But there are negative connotations of red hair dating back to the Middle Ages, so it's generally much older than Irish separatist violence as much as that might be a factor in the UK's incidence of gingerism.

 

[Rabulias]

"Prejudice" by Tim Minchin is fitting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw
(Fair warning: there are a couple Eric's-Grandma-unfriendly lyrics, but it's worth watching)

 

[Morrus]

First off, I made no claim to what I think or do or what kind of jokes I tell. I said that in our society blonde jokes are still ubiquitous. Let's not connect dots that I've been explicit to not connect.

Here I'll add my own opinion on something: Sure, of course it's bad. Then again, I have little patience for the modern grievance industry that looks for any excuse at all to claim that "hey, I'm a victim and I'm offended" and then launch on a crusade. There's a happy medium between callous disregard for the feelings of others, and weaponized victimhood, and we have to be careful not to imply that it's a binary choice between the two, because clearly its not. By the same token, one is not the "cure" for the other.

I love the term "weaponized victimhood"! A perfect turn of phrase.

 

[Scorpio616]

If I had to make a massive WAG as to the origin (and this is a total guess) - I'd say it was due to lots of Irish and Scottish folks moving to England in the 70s and the ensuing resentment. Ginger colouring is common amongst them, and it had all the social (though not legal) connotations that immigration can have today, albeit on a lesser level.

I'm thinking it goes back a bit further...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

 

[Dungeoneer]

Of course, not everyone is prejudiced against redheads. I find redheads fairly attractive, personally. And Ferrari is Italian for redhead, so I think there may be some interest from Italy as well.

 

[Morrus]

Of course, not everyone is prejudiced against redheads.

Well, obviously. Is there such thing as a demographic group that everyone is prejudiced against?

 

[tomBitonti]

Personally, I figure that making a regular thing out of saying uncomplimentary stuff about groups of people probably isn't a great idea.

Strongly agreed. The usage seems to be a back door for a kind of unsavory sentiment.

To answer the initial question, I first heard the term on South Park. The use was less offensive than it might have been because Cartright is always offensive, but it was still an offensive use. But, Southpark is Southpark; no surprises there, nor any offense to take.

Perhaps the UK usage is benign. I suspect that here in the US the term is not being used as a synonym for "has red hair", but is meant as a deprecation. The tone of the use fits a lot of other terms which are clearly offensive.

I guess, what is the point? In any relationships, what does a persons hair color matter? Unless you are talking about aspects of beauty, or need to describe someone to find them in a crowd, or are talking about finding a good makeup or clothing scheme for a person, the subject matter seems very unimportant.

Thx!

TomB