Gishes themes, classes, paragon paths and concepts

OK, so what types of fighter/mages do you want to see in D&D NEXT?.

Good question. This is an archetype that needs support in the new edition, I dont think previous editions have ever nailed it. But like others I dont like the term gish.

Also what about combat mages with bows ala arcane archer?

What ever happens I hope the fighter/mages do not teleport like 4th ed swordmages.:rant:
 

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"This bickering is pointless! Jester, release him!"

- Grand Moff Stormonu

I'd rather we focus on the usefulness of a fighter/wizard class than the semantics of the name. I think the game could use a class that has a decent mix of fighting skill and magic use. One of 3Es shortcomings was that when multiclassing in fighter/wizard, it wasn't worth taking fighter levels past 4th - if even going that far. 5E, whaterever it does, should NOT make that mistake.

On a sad note, short of a Jedi, I can not think of an iconic character from fantasy that mixes the two classes (off the top of my head). If anyone could throw out some examples, I'd appreciate it - it might aid the discussion about how to pull off such a character.
 

OK, so what types of fighter/mages do you want to see in D&D NEXT?

Good question, and for me, the answer depends on the multiclassing possibilities available. I could be happy with sensible "hybrid" or simultaneous multiclass rules. In this case, I prefer them to the "sequential" multiclassing like 3e had.

However, that's based on previous D&D systems. With all the stuff we're hearing about magic, at-wills, feats, etc. It may be a different answer once I see the rules.
 


The only context I'm happy to discuss gish in, is githyanki.

As I stated before, about 15-20 years ago when I first learned the word gish, it was ment to be a warrior with magic. I did not learn of the githyanki in any meaningful way until 3.5.

I never used gith, or ran into them as a PC in 2e. I have used the term as it has been used by many others without ever refrencing gith.
 

While the call goes out for a F/Mu mix, let's not forget about a decent Thief/Mu mix as well, ala Grey Mouser - Hexblade?

I agree, the spellflitcher in 2e, the spell theif in 3.5, both awsome concepts, and I can't belive I forgot the hexblade.

We have decent F/Cleric mix with the Paladin, a F/Druid with the Ranger, and a F/Cleric/Mu/Thief in the Bard, so I don't see reason for F/Mu to have any opposition.

I was told in 1e the ranger was arcane not druid.
 

Here is a discussion of these types of characters, which TV Tropes calls the magic knight.

Examples:
Spawn
Dr. Fate
Etrigan

Maguis of Charlemagne
Elric of Melnibone
Gandalf (yes)
The Deryni (though psionic)
The Heralds of Valdemar
Gray Mouser

There are more than these, but I think many people here will be familiar with the examples I've given.
 
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As to the word itself....

As with so much Language, each word has an Etymology, including Gish, and whether people like it or not the etymology of gish has changed over the years.

The origin of the word comes from the original White Dwarf #12 article (1979) on the Githyanki referring to "a Githyanki fighter/wizard combination". It then evolved in OD&D to be synonymous with the elf class. it has since evolved into a noun used in various RPG settings to mean "A magician, or character that is skilled in both physical combat and the use of magic. Most gish characters use their magical abilities to increase their own personal combat abilities (known as "buffing")."

Better yet? Its also wormed its way into common urban language. See the Urban Dictionary. Some of these I can't repeat here (#3).

* to do something halfway; to not see something through to the end
* Smashing Pumpkins album
* to apply force to cause expulsion of matter
* variation of "gosh"


Now to the OP... Yes, there needs to be a real attempt at addressing the Warrior-Mage archetype as well as a Rogue-Mage archetype. As noted by Mattachine there are a number of characters that can be used as role models for this but I do think there need to be some more truly D&D style fantasy warrior-mages as well such as dwarven rune-casters. However, I also feel that any combination of martial fighting style character that wields a power (magic, psionic, etc.) can be classified under this heading.
 


Thus the dangers of casual language. If Coca-Cola is as lax in defending the word "Coke" as this, they'll lose their trademark.

The Githyanki must zealously defend their copyrights.
 

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