Give Me Moral Dilemmas for my PCs!

[lastalas]

My favorite is the "Would you kill Hitler?" dilemna.

The PCs receive information that a particular NPC is on the path leading others towards destruction. Maybe he has an artifact that the PCs know will eventually raise an evil god, but he doesn't believe the PCs. Do the PCs kill him to stop him? Do they try to reason with him? Do they tell the King, who has his own motives (maybe he wants to squash the rebellion this guys is leading)?

Or, maybe the bad guy has a powerful sentient EVIL weapon, and when the PCs kill the bad guy the weapon promises them power and fortune. Do they follow?

What if they are sent to assinate a brutal king who is a wicked and evil man, but his people are just honest guys trying to save their families and are between a rock and a hard place? Are they willing to cut through hordes of decent individuals to get to the king?

What if the grown-up child of one of the people they killed becomes a lawman, and hunts them down for murdering his father? Do they kill the good guy who is hunting them?

 

[lastalas]

For an example of the PCs' shameless behavior....

* The PCs get in a fight with three NPCs who they know are semi-bad guys (they're working with a bandit lord).
* After a brief fight in which none of the PCs are injured, one of the NPCs is killed, one is knocked unconscious, and the other one surrenders. The PCs accept the surrender of the still-conscious NPC.
* The still-conscious NPC says "I say, would you mind healing my unconscious companion before he dies of blood loss?"
* One of the PCs goes over and breaks the unconscious PC's neck.

In most kingdoms with the rule of law, this is still murder. The authorities may try to track them down. If the NPC gets free, he could tell the authorities that the PCs attacked them first. Then the PCs become the villans.

 

[Nac_Mac_Feegle]

Why give them choices.

Reward their evil acitons, if they truely are behaving in this way, then let them benefit, and unseen but powerful and malevolent diety boosting them

He will of course expect something in return, typically when its most inconvenient to the PC's or when they are to far down the road to hell that its to late.

Of course, a good diety is not going to let this pass unhindered. He will be aware of the evil gods new champions, even if they are not, and will endevour to put agents of good in thier path.

They cant go aorund killing every paladin sent ot thwart them without realising theres a price ot pay for the lives they lead.

You might have a no-alignment game, but if theres gods, then theres sides to fight on, and no god is going to let mortals not of thier following get to powerful.

You might also want to consdier the phrase "All evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing" this is exactly how your priestess is behaving, she might not think herself evil, but how many villains do. The road to hell is paved wiht good intentions

I think personally this priestess is getting close to losing her powers if she doesnt buck her ideas up.

Feegle Out

 

[LostSoul]

Lemme give you some thoughts o' mine...

It seems like some of your players enjoy killing things and taking their stuff. This is cool, give them lots of that to do (ie. lots of fun, tactically exciting fights). It sounds like you want to have them address moral issues, so put some in, but don't make that the focus of the game. (Unless they eat it up - then go for it!)

See, *I* hoped that the priestess' player would try to act as a moderating force to the eviller guys in the party.

I think you need to talk to this player and ask him what he wants out of the game. If he wants to play a lawful good character or not. If he doesn't really care about that, just go with it. Maybe you could have him switch faiths to a god that suits the player's beliefs more. Or not; nothing's going to be ruined if he keeps up that behaviour...

...unless you and the other players think "that's lame". In which case you need to work out some kind of agreement on how to handle it. Approach it from a meta-game perspective: "It breaks my suspension of disbelief when you act like that and you're still part of the lawful good church. It's affecting my enjoyment of the game. Is there something we can do to fix that?"


Now I think you have to ask yourself if, in these moral situations you put your PCs, you want them to pick the good path or not. I think for it to really work, you have to let them make their own minds up. Then when they do evil, it is them doing the evil, and they have no one else to blame for their moral choices but themselves. And if they pick the good path, they get the reward of being the hero. If you force them down one path or another (simply by making the good path more rewarding, or getting pissed off if they pick evil choices) then there is no choice being made except by you.

Which is okay, if that's what you want to do.

I think that either you can sneak up on them with moral issues - by putting some of them in the game - or talk to them flat out and tell them that you want to have them address some of these moral issues. Either way, make sure that they know that you're okay with any choices they make. (They'll probably do the evil thing at first just to test you.)

And if they're all about killing things and taking their stuff, make sure that your moral choices don't get in the way of that!

 

[smootrk]

Give the PC's a choice of saving 2 or more individuals (or groups), and make sure the PC's know well that by choosing one group, they ultimately doom the other group. Especially good when well known or otherwise important npc's are in the choices, and make sure the options are equally devastating. Extrapolating on this idea, create a situation where the PC's think they have a choice, but engineer the events so that both groups are doomed making the PC's feel that they have erred both in their choice and/or their method of 'saving' the npc(s).

 

[LostSoul]

Extrapolating on this idea, create a situation where the PC's think they have a choice, but engineer the events so that both groups are doomed making the PC's feel that they have erred both in their choice and/or their method of 'saving' the npc(s).

I don't think that's a good idea. In a case like that, nothing the players can do will matter. They might be upset with that. Especially if they feel bad about their choice.

 

[smootrk]

I don't think that's a good idea. In a case like that, nothing the players can do will matter. They might be upset with that. Especially if they feel bad about their choice.

Isn't this part of the point of the thread... a moral delima? A chance for some second guessing on their choices, and dealing with unforseen consequences based on choices that they make.

 

[LostSoul]

Isn't this part of the point of the thread... a moral delima? A chance for some second guessing on their choices, and dealing with unforseen consequences based on choices that they make.

Yeah, but if you re-fit their choices to work out a certain way, there's no dilemma there. Just whatever the DM wants to happen. Their choices are rendered meaningless.

edit: I guess the way I see it is the players go, "Oh man, what do I do? I could do this, or I could do that... both are pretty cool choices. The only factor that tips the scale is that this one is the evil choice, and this one is the good choice... I think I'll go with-" The DM responds to that choice with the logical consequences, hopefully setting up another similar choice - but this time the stakes are higher! (And the stakes keep increasing until your PC has his story finished, decides to address some other issue, or dies.)

 

[Torm]

Call yer Barbarian to become a Divine Champion to a LG deity - Torm comes to mind, if I'm in your pantheon. I likes My Paladins, but I likes My Divine Champions, too. Especially if I can turn em LG over time.

If he takes you up on it, the moral dilemmas will create themselves.

 

[smootrk]

The dilemma is whatever the players perceive it to be... and the word to read carefully is perceive. The players need not directly know all the details of the situation any more than what critter might be in the next room of the dungeon. It is all DM fiat, as long as the result is a good time for all.