Giving the monk more choices: the Mystic, version 1.6 -- post #41

[CRGreathouse]

I like the fact that now a friendly cure light wounds won't trigger (and use up) a use of focused mind. Though I still think it should be the mystic's option whether she calls upon this extraordinary resistance or not. If she thinks that an effect can be resisted without focused mind she should be able to try. Though she better be sure she can do it; if she fails the save against a supposedly "easy" effect, that day's use of focused mind should be used up. You can't remain focused if you roll a 1 against some low-level sorcerer's charm person.

I'm still not sure how I want this to work exactly. I see where you're coming from, but I don't want it to be "+5 on the save to your hardest DC each day" -- I'm trying to replicate a particular flavor effect (without, admittedly, much luck).

I think the sentence works better without those two words.

Probably. Certainly the wording is awkward right now. How's this?

Harness Destructive Energies (Sp): Once per day as a standard action, the mystic can tap into and release fell energies used against her. If in the past round she was targeted with and saved against a negative energy effect or a death effect to which she was not immune, she can use it herself as a standard action. The effect is a ray with a range of the original effect's range (or 10 feet, whichever is better), but is otherwise identical to it (do not recalculate the DC).

It would be interesting, wouldn't it, if a character could heal others, but not herself? Why not drop the pre-requisite?

This falls into the category of things that would be fine for a generic class but that I don't want to do, flavorwise. The theory underlying this mechanic is that it's really difficult for the mystic to heal others and few are able to do so. I could accomplish this in many ways: each time grants only a little healing, so you must invest great effort to be good at it; you need another power or powers to take this; the power has an unusually high level + Wis modifier requirement; etc. In general this flavor effect could be ignored (or even turned on its head), or other methods (as those listed) could be chosen.

Since it's easy enough for others to change, I'll leave it as it is to better meet my goal. If you like my goal but not my mechanic I'm open to suggestions -- but as far as opening this to other interpretations this is easy enough to skip.

In any case, here's my revision -- no changes except those addressing your post.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Does the flavor require that focused mind be used up on a DC 10 will save? If not, you should set a threshold for activating the ability; say that it doesn't activate if the save DC is less than 20, say. Or something like that.

Set up some mechanic so that it is not wasted on trivial saves, but that it could be used up by a different attack than the mystic was worried about.

Other than that, I am really happy with this version.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Does the flavor require that focused mind be used up on a DC 10 will save? If not, you should set a threshold for activating the ability; say that it doesn't activate if the save DC is less than 20, say. Or something like that.

Set up some mechanic so that it is not wasted on trivial saves, but that it could be used up by a different attack than the mystic was worried about.

Other than that, I am really happy with this version.

Ooh, what about this: you get it on all saves, but if you lose the bonus if you don't beat a DC by at least 10.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Ooh, what about this: you get it on all saves, but if you lose the bonus if you don't beat a DC by at least 10.

That sounds just perfect. The power will almost always give at least a +10 bonus, so the only time it will be lost is if it had converted a failed save into a successful one; that represents a fair benefit for the use of a power.

Although it is possible for a character to lose her use of focused mind when she would have made the save anyway. E.g. 18 starting wisdom, savant path, 8th or 9th level. Base will save is +10, and focused mind gives a +9. Say she rolls a 10 vs a DC 20 effect. She loses the focused mind bonus even though she didn't need to use it. However, I don't think this will happen often enough to be a problem. Flavorwise it can be justified by saying that that the razor-thin margin of success was close enough to failure to disrupt a newly acquired power.

Conversely, higher level mystics could get repeated benefits from focused mind. A 16th level mystic gets +13. If she makes her save by +11, it means she would have failed without her focused mind; but the focused mind still stays around. Flavorwise they are firmly enough grounded in their powers that only the most serious attacks can shake their focus.

So yeah, I would solidly endorse it.

Incidentally, your use of the fast movement power has grown on me. A character basically needs to take it 3 times for the ability to run on water to become practical, but for many mystics whose level+wis mod is between 3 and 9 there won't a whole lot of competing options. They would probably take evasion, and maybe wholeness of body, but I could see a lot of people figuring that they can get magic weapons cheaply enough, don't need to be able to take 10 on skill checks, and haven't taken the priest path. And of course if you have the spring attack feat a 60+ movement rate would be very handy. Once you have a 60 speed then improving your slow fall ability starts to become a factor, as does the prospect of being able to run on clouds. The marginal utility remains reasonably high, despite the opportunity cost. I was concerned at first that the ability was too weak, but now I think it is a very finely balanced power for its rank.

Of course, if you had a last minute conversion and changed the mechanic as suggested in post 26 (and included the wuxia power!) I would not be displeased.

Although then you would have 31 powers, which is not a nice number. Maybe slip in spell turning (or redirection) as a high level power that has diamond soul as a pre-requisite? It would be the same kind of flavor as harness destructive energies.

BTW, are you satisfied with calling it "harness destructive energies"? It doesn't have quite the same flavor as "diamond body" or "heart of fire". How about "displace death"? BTW, it's nice that a character would get this ability close to the point of her career when she gets the perfect self power. Both have the flavor of reducing and transforming the character's mortality.

 

[CRGreathouse]

That sounds just perfect. The power will almost always give at least a +10 bonus, so the only time it will be lost is if it had converted a failed save into a successful one; that represents a fair benefit for the use of a power.

Although it is possible for a character to lose her use of focused mind when she would have made the save anyway. E.g. 18 starting wisdom, savant path, 8th or 9th level. Base will save is +10, and focused mind gives a +9. Say she rolls a 10 vs a DC 20 effect. She loses the focused mind bonus even though she didn't need to use it. However, I don't think this will happen often enough to be a problem. Flavorwise it can be justified by saying that that the razor-thin margin of success was close enough to failure to disrupt a newly acquired power.

Conversely, higher level mystics could get repeated benefits from focused mind. A 16th level mystic gets +13. If she makes her save by +11, it means she would have failed without her focused mind; but the focused mind still stays around. Flavorwise they are firmly enough grounded in their powers that only the most serious attacks can shake their focus.

So yeah, I would solidly endorse it.

I like this mechanic, too; it finally fits what I was trying to do. I may adjust the amount that the mystic must make the save by, but that's a balance issue, not a flavor problem.

Of course, if you had a last minute conversion and changed the mechanic as suggested in post 26 (and included the wuxia power!) I would not be displeased.

It's a nice mechanic. Believe it or not, though, wuxia isn't the 'feel' I want, so I'll leave it for now.

BTW, are you satisfied with calling it "harness destructive energies"? It doesn't have quite the same flavor as "diamond body" or "heart of fire". How about "displace death"? BTW, it's nice that a character would get this ability close to the point of her career when she gets the perfect self power. Both have the flavor of reducing and transforming the character's mortality.

That does sound better, yes. I agree about this power with perfect self... it's sort of cool how these things come together.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Believe it or not, though, wuxia isn't the 'feel' I want, so I'll leave it for now.

Well, with wuxia support the class will be able to implement anyone's vision of a monk. So even if you wouldn't use the ability in your own campaign, it might be worth introducing.

I can easily see a DM tweaking the ability list, or making more powers automatic, to model particular versions of martial arts or spirituality. Some will want a "subtle magic" feel, and so won't allow dimension dooring or etherealness. Except for NPC ninjas, of course. Others will be big fans of Crouching Tiger, and so will make fast movement, water walking and wuxia required, but ban immunity to poison. This might make some gaps in the power list, but them's the breaks.

Incidentally, I can't quite grasp what it is about wuxia that you want to avoid. You have water walking, you have rapid movement. You have obviously magical effects like etherealness and dimension door. What is it about running up walls that doesn't fit?

Just curious. I like and appreciate this document and your style, but I don't quite get this aspect of it.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I can easily see a DM tweaking the ability list, or making more powers automatic, to model particular versions of martial arts or spirituality. Some will want a "subtle magic" feel, and so won't allow dimension dooring or etherealness. Except for NPC ninjas, of course. Others will be big fans of Crouching Tiger, and so will make fast movement, water walking and wuxia required, but ban immunity to poison. This might make some gaps in the power list, but them's the breaks.

I agree with you on the customizing of the class -- although I wouldn't allow NPCs to have access to abilities that PCs can't have, especially class abilities.

Incidentally, I can't quite grasp what it is about wuxia that you want to avoid. You have water walking, you have rapid movement. You have obviously magical effects like etherealness and dimension door. What is it about running up walls that doesn't fit?

Just curious. I like and appreciate this document and your style, but I don't quite get this aspect of it.

I hate the rapid movement. I left it in there purely out of the force of tradition.

I wouldn't have added etherealness and dimension door on their own were they not a part of the monk class, but they're decent as ways to give some mystics movement abilities without increasing foot speed. They're basically garden-variety spell-like abilities, and they don't bother me (though they don't excite me, either).

Water walking is an ability which I feel should be given to those who can hit an appropriate DC without magic (a la ELH), so it's not a big jump to a class ability. Again, it's not something I would have given the class on my own, but it seems appropriate enough.

I guess the real difference is that water walking is 'realistic' enough, considering what high skill ranks would mean. The class ability only (slightly!) speeds access to it. In general, though, wuxia assumes a basline physics very different from our own -- and I'm not talking about Greek vs. Bohrian atoms. As I'm unwilling to modify the underlying game mechanics as I feel would be necessary to simulate this feel, and do not desire its effects, it's simple enough for me to overlook its addition to my class.

 

[Phaedrus]

I like the class. I still need to study it more, but I did notice that Focused Mind refers to a Stunning Fist use, but the class doesn't have the Stunning Fist feature (that I can determine).

Why no Flurry of Blows?
Why not replicate the Monk's unarmed attack bonuses differential?

 

[CRGreathouse]

I like the class. I still need to study it more, but I did notice that Focused Mind refers to a Stunning Fist use, but the class doesn't have the Stunning Fist feature (that I can determine).

Why no Flurry of Blows?
Why not replicate the Monk's unarmed attack bonuses differential?

In my first post I have several feats designed for unarmed combat, replacing the core monk abilities as well as the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. (I've copied these into this post for ease of reference.) Mystics that want these abilities take them as feats, using their every-other-level "mystic power or bonus feat". Remember, if you're on the Warrior path your Base Attack is effectively the same as a fighter's for the purpose of feats, so these aren't as hard to qualify for as they would otherwise seem.

My reasoning was that I didn't want all mystics to be unarmed combatants -- some might be pacifists, while others might train with the katana or sai. If you want all mystics to be unarmed fighters you can just give them each of these feats instead of "mystic power or bonus feat" at appropriate levels, waiving requirements. Cheiromancer and I were just discussing the flexibility of the class in this regard a few posts above -- there's a lot a DM can do with a little tweaking.

Guarded Unarmed Strike [Fighter]
Benefit: You are considered to be armed even when unarmed—that is, you do not provoke attacks or opportunity from armed opponents when you attack them while unarmed. However, you still get an attack of opportunity against any opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you.
Additionally, your unarmed damage increases to 1d4 as a Medium creature (adjusted for size).
Normal: Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike.

Lethal Unarmed Strike [Fighter]
Prerequisites: Guarded Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: Your unarmed strikes can deal normal or subdual damage, at your option.
Additionally, your unarmed damage increases to 1d6 as a Medium creature (adjusted for size).
Normal: Without this feat, you can deal subdual damage at no penalty or normal damage at a –4 penalty.

Flurry of Blows [Fighter]
You strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Guarded Unarmed Strike, Lethal Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: When unarmed or using a kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, or natural weapon, you may take an extra attack at your highest attack bonus. If you do, all attacks this round suffer a –2 penalty.

Improved Flurry of Blows [Fighter]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Flurry of Blows, Guarded Unarmed Strike, Lethal Unarmed Strike, base attack +5.
Benefit: When you flurry, your attacks suffer a –1 penalty instead of a –2 penalty.
Additionally, your unarmed damage increases to 1d8 as a Medium creature (adjusted for size).

Greater Flurry of Blows [Fighter]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Flurry of Blows, Guarded Unarmed Strike, Improved Flurry of Blows, Lethal Unarmed Strike, base attack +9.
Benefit: You suffer no attack penalty when you flurry.
Additionally, your unarmed damage increases to 1d10 as a Medium creature (adjusted for size).

Supreme Flurry of Blows [Fighter]
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Flurry of Blows, Greater Flurry of Blows, Guarded Unarmed Strike, Improved Flurry of Blows, Lethal Unarmed Strike, base attack +12.
Benefit: When you flurry, you make two extra attacks at your highest bonus instad of one.
Additionally, your unarmed damage increases to 2d6 as a Medium creature (adjusted for size).

Fists of Iron [Fighter]
Prerequisites: Str 13, Guarded Unarmed Strike, Lethal Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, base attack +15.
Benefit: Your unarmed damage increases to 2d8 as a Medium creature (adjusted for size).

 

[Phaedrus]

I'd read the feats, but somehow missed their integration with the PDF. Perhaps you should include them in the PDF?

AND... not to be a jerk, but Stunning Fist is still missing. It either should be added, or reference to it should be removed.

I'm pretty sure this class is replacing the Monk for me... I really like the versatility.