Gleemax Terms of Use - Unacceptable

[Sigurd]

http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Misc/Index.aspx?doc=websitelegalnotice


by posting....

You represent and warrant that: (i) you own or control all of the rights to the User Content that you post or you otherwise have the right to post such User Content to the Site, (ii) the User Content is accurate and not misleading, and (iii) use and posting of the User Content you supply does not violate these TOU and will not violate any rights of or cause injury to any person or entity, including without limitation the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person by reason of any User Content posted by you to or through the Site.

You are solely responsible for the User Content that you post, store or upload on or through the Site, including any material or information that you transmit to other Users.

So everything you post is on your head and you are solely responsible. - Fair nuff.

But you also....

By posting or submitting any text, images, designs, video, sound, code, data, lists, or other materials or information (such User-submitted content, collectively, "User Content") to or through a Site, including without limitation on any User profile page, you hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards, its affiliates and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sub-licensable license, to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content (in whole or in part) in any media and to incorporate the User Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed. The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any proprietary rights in such User Content, including but not limited to rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under any relevant jurisdiction.


Everything you write there is grist for their mill. They can use it in perpetuity without consideration to you.

I am not so misguided that I think every post is "Valuable" but I find it cheap for me to spend my time helping others enjoy their game and kiss away every chance of compensation while I'm doing it.

I'm telling my friends that if you value you imagination or problem solving abilities WOTC has rules in place to RIP YOU OFF if you use their forums.

They have all the user identities. If they can't be bothered with considerations for user intellectual property then shame on them.

Sigurd

 

[Meloncov]

They are guarding themselves against lawsuits. They don't want someone suing because the believe (rightfully or not) that a certain ability in a book is like what they posted on the Wizards boards. I doubt they have plans to deleberately mine ideas from the forums.

Besides, it's not like you have any real chance of making money off of something you post elsewhere.

 

[Yair]

I agree that the terms aren't acceptable. I believe Meloncov's point about lawsuits is valid, but can be addressed in less draconic ways (e.g. "any User Content may not be used in a copyright or IP claim by either side"). I also agree with Meloncov that it isn't likely that you'll see much money from your work anyways, nor that Wizards will harvest content without paying the users or getting their agreement. Wizards is likely to harvest material submitted to dedicated purposes, like mods for their online programs, but I don't think it would harvest things in general. I still dislike the draconic possession of all IP, simply on aesthetic reasons.

What I am surprised about that this doesn't mention "Safe Zones" for publishers to publish works without granting rights to Wizards. This pretty much precludes any hope of Gleemax being a platform for other companies and other fan communitiesm, which I reckoned was the supposed hope for the site to develop into.

 

[Sigurd]

They are guarding themselves against lawsuits.

I have no trouble seeing how it helps WOTC on multiple points. I just think any one who considers their words carefully or has a grasp of the game should post elsewhere for their own sake. You never know.

To say that it "wont happen" isn't enough when the license is plain as day. They may never make another 3ed book and likely won't troll for 4ed material from the site but ....

Its simply wrong. Its a collaborative website where WOTC doesn't collaborate - its the sweatshop owner.

 

[Shining Dragon]

Then. Don't. Post.

You've got the terms. Either go elsewhere or play by their rules. If enough people leave and they know why then the terms will change.

But I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

 

[Jack99]

AFAIK, those aren't new, they were the same for the old boards. It's mostly a safeguard against lawsuits, in case someone has made something somewhere on their boards, which looks remotely like what they come up with.

Being based in the US, with the amounts of stupid lawsuits that gets thrown around over there, I can not say that I blame them.

Cheers,

 

[S'mon]

At least they're not demanding an exclusive license, or ownership of the copyright in whatever you post.

 

[Slife]

Email them a slightly modified SVLA.

Works wonders.

 

[Spell]

I am not so misguided that I think every post is "Valuable" but I find it cheap for me to spend my time helping others enjoy their game and kiss away every chance of compensation while I'm doing it.

horrible, this never happened before.

no, wait a second... the creators of youtube got rich thanks to users uploading their videos in there, so that the website becase so popular that google paid good money for it. but that's just one case.

no, wait, there is some talking about the creators of facebook wanting to send the website to some megacorporation or another... possibility of them sharing the profits with me or my friends: 0%.

what about myspace, can someone comment on that?

man, it happens all the time. let's face it. we are JUST consumers. we have to be thankful for what they give us. forget about your rights. you haven't got any, unless you can buy them. the idea of democracy is an illusion. the idea of you counting for anything is pretty much illusory, too. you can just choose if you want vinegard or ketchup with your cips. and be grateful that you have that choice, because they could decide that producing vinegard is too expensive and you would have to stick to ketchup for the time being.

as for the forums, just take it easy, and post were you feel like they respect you more. but don't espect much, or chances are you will be disappointed. sorry if this sounds nihilist, but that's the way it is, really.

 

[Spell]

I believe Meloncov's point about lawsuits is valid, but can be addressed in less draconic ways

i don't want (and can't) delve into politics (be them u.s. or worldwide), but i think there is little you can do in the way of tuning the draconic down, especially in entertainment business, these days.

i'd say that WotC policy, however unacceptable, is still less draconic than, for example, the European Community having every buyer to pay a flat tax on blank CDs and DVDs because they *could* be used for piracy and they have to use that money to fight piracy and feed the corporations that lobbied the Community for such a just and fair law.

so, if i want to issue a CD of music composed, played, and recorded by me (like i might, and reasonably soon, too), i still have to pay a tax to the big corporations because some dude is downloading britney spears on kazaa. and this despite the number of studies, in u.s. and elsewhere, that show how piracy has effectively zero effects on sales.
in fact, forget my music, i would have to pay such a tax even if i wanted a blank dvd to store my camera's pictures!!!

at least WotC is telling you upfront what they will do with your time and money.

I also agree with Meloncov that it isn't likely that you'll see much money from your work anyways,

it certainly isn't likely, but he is spending money on electricity, and time he could use for working at mcdonald's, if nothing else. it sounds fair that, if he posts a description of his game world, he could at least retain the rights on it, rather than giving them to WotC.

nor that Wizards will harvest content without paying the users or getting their agreement.

no. but let's pretend that i post a description of my game world on there, for brainstorming and discussion. then i publish it, all by myself. let's say that Wizards want to kill off competition and decide to sue me. there is no case, they win even before going to court, because all of my posts belong to them.

now, this is extremely unlikely to happen with me or you or joe the gamer. but it could happen to joe game designer who is laid off WotC today and starts his company tomorrow. heck, TSR sued gygax because they claimed he had started designing a RPG game during his office time at TSR. it's not like it NEVER EVER happened before, or like one can assume that there are no dorks or... ehm.. .less than nice executives in the role playing world.

I still dislike the draconic possession of all IP, simply on aesthetic reasons.

funny, i dislike it on principle.

What I am surprised about that this doesn't mention "Safe Zones" for publishers to publish works without granting rights to Wizards.

i would be surprised of the contrary because...

This pretty much precludes any hope of Gleemax being a platform for other companies and other fan communitiesm

which makes totally business sense. why should WotC pay for having people from another gaming company discussing their products there? because we are all friends? mmmh... i don't know about that...