Gleemax Terms of Use - Unacceptable

[S'mon]

As a point of comparison, here's a generic release form that you'd use when submitting a screenplay to a production company or studio:

Hi Steve - as a law lecturer teaching IP and Contract, it's refreshing for me to read such a nice, well written and basically fair release form! I wish WoTC would do something similar re Gleemax TOU.

 

[MerricB]

The idea is that what's posted to Gleemax just doesn't count. It's as if it was never posted (as long as you had the right to post it to begin-with). So if you post something to Gleemax and your site under THESE rules, you do NOT cede rights to wizards and may sue them just like you could if you only posted it to your site. But the fact that you posted it on Gleemax amounts to nothing, it's meaningless. You'd be in the exact same position if you only posted to your site, as the posts on Gleemax just don't count.

If something is on my site Wizards can't copy it. They might if it's only on Gleemax, under THESE terms, since what's on Gleemax just doesn't count. If you want protection under these rules, you need to post the stuff elsewhere too.

I'm afraid that those rules don't work at all.

They fail to protect Wizards at all from being sued if they inadvertently "copy" something you've posted on gleemax. Without that proviso, your rules are worthless.

 

[Hussar]

Hi Steve - as a law lecturer teaching IP and Contract, it's refreshing for me to read such a nice, well written and basically fair release form! I wish WoTC would do something similar re Gleemax TOU.

And that's great. But, an online forum isn't the same as submitting a manuscript to a company.

Online forums are usually fairly informal gatherings where people tend to blather on about whatever strikes their fancy. By and large, people posting on a forum are not trying to get what they are posting about published. Forum posts are not submissions and treating them as such leads to all sorts of other problems.

After all, if WOTC states that they are going to actively look at the forums as a source of material, then they should do so. That takes manpower - to sift through the massive amount of chaff to find that one kernel of goodness. It's simply not worth the time and effort when there is a perfectly good submission process in place.

At the end of the day, we have to remember that we're posting on a public message board. Unsolicited material should not be a source of litigation for WOTC. That very nice release letter above is great and all, but, it really isn't applicable to a public forum.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Well, I will just add another reason to my list of 'why I don't post on WotC boards' and move on - It is hard to post less than none....

Didn't Yahoo try something like this a few years ago, and get shouted down?

The Auld Grump

 

[resistor]

Didn't Yahoo try something like this a few years ago, and get shouted down?

I believe they did. AOL did also, with their AIM service. That ended pretty quickly (a week or two, I believe).

 

[Yair]

I'm afraid that those rules don't work at all.

They fail to protect Wizards at all from being sued if they inadvertently "copy" something you've posted on gleemax. Without that proviso, your rules are worthless.

I'm confused - how can you sue Wizards for copying something you've posted to Gleemax if what you posted to Gleemax doesn't count? You can sue them for copying something you've posted on your site EVEN IF you posted it to Gleemax, but you could sue them for copying something you've posted on your site right now, regardless of Gleemax - my rules only encourage you to post there, since they do not expose you to the risk of handing Wizards the rights to copy it.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Showing the slightest bit of caring would result in people twisting their language and screwing WOTC as hard as they can. If they tried to be fair about it, people would abuse them like a ... really abusable thing.

I think this is just as disingenuous as saying that WotC wants to rip off posters.

No, they wouldn't be. And yes, there is a way they can be protected and not have their little "all your posts are belong to gleemax" line. Indeed, their current position leaves them vunlerable. More than one poster has outlined specifically how they could fix this. They should do it.

Why didn't they begin with something like this? Why haven't they changed it?

If you want to publish something DON'T PUT IT ON THE GLEEMAX BOARDS.

It would be more accurate to say "If you want to retain control over what you say, don't put it on the Gleemax boards."

 

[MerricB]

I'm confused - how can you sue Wizards for copying something you've posted to Gleemax if what you posted to Gleemax doesn't count? You can sue them for copying something you've posted on your site EVEN IF you posted it to Gleemax, but you could sue them for copying something you've posted on your site right now, regardless of Gleemax - my rules only encourage you to post there, since they do not expose you to the risk of handing Wizards the rights to copy it.

Err...

You post something to Gleemax and to your site. Wizards copy it from Gleemax. You sue them, because there's no proof they copied it from Gleemax, it could have been from your site.

 

[ThirdWizard]

It would be more accurate to say "If you want to retain control over what you say, don't put it on the Gleemax boards."

I'm curious. What does this mean exactly?

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm curious. What does this mean exactly?

I'll preface this by saying that I'm probably looking at it from a more idealistic standpoint than a practical standpoint. That is, I care more about what this means than what it functionally does or will do.

But if WotC gets ownership of everything you post to Gleemax, that means they can do with it whatever they might want to do at the time, and you have no say in it whatsoever. At least, legally speaking (I'm sure at least the first few people they want to use will be contacted about it).

Which means, fundamentally, that you don't control what you put onto Gleemax. That they are totally free and clear to do anything with those posts. This includes publishing them without your consent, but also includes selling them to other parties, using them in advertising, etc.

Say there is a Gleemax "post pictures of your gaming group!" thread. Those pictures then become property of WotC. Any drawings of your characters become property of WotC. Any pictures you find on the internet of other peoples' drawings and post to Gleemax as a representative of your character (say you found something cool on Conceptart.org) become property of WotC (which is part of how this gets legally sticky and ends up getting fans sued). Then they use a photoshopped picture of your wife as the Whore-Demon Bthalbir, they use your drawing of a nude elf (posted because you were doing a body study of the different races) to mock the Book of Elf Porn, they sell the Conceptart.org picture to the studio doing the next D&D movie and get everyone sued because of a fan's use of a picture....

They OWN what you post there. You don't. You don't control that information anymore, they do. That's much more than just trusting them. That's giving them a little present every time you 1's and 0's it up over there. And just like you can't control if someone you gave a golden ring to melts it down to pimp their smile, you can't control if that little YouTube you posted involving your gaming session gets used as the next D&D commercial.

I'm pretty sure WotC is a stand-up company, but they already get my money, I'm not going to give them my words, my thoughts, my drawings, my pictures, my accounts of my life...