GMs - Do you get bored when you're a player?

[HaroldTheHobbit]

Haven’t been a player since the 80ies, I’m simply not interested.

 

[Eric V]

"Anyone can use a skill's untrained actions, but you can use trained actions only if you have a proficiency rank of trained or better in that skill."
Can't even attempt it if you're not trained or better.
What trained actions are we looking at?
A few examples...
Squeeze (Acrobatics)
Disarm (Athletics)
Feint (Deception)
Track (Survival)

Do those sound like things untrained people should have a believable chance at succeeding at? Tracking? Disarming?

I think the "gotta be trained" filter is to stop people from creating weird scenarios by just rolling a 20. I understand that's a subjective preference though. I happen to like it; the duelist should be the one who disarms, feints, etc., not a cleric who happens to roll well.

 

[payn]

Let's say you have a research-based character in Cthulhu. You've got great Library Use, lots of points in Anthropology and Languages. You're going to make some rolls in a library, then you're going to tell the adventurers where to go. They're going to sneak into the lair, pick locks, knock out the cultists. Your nerd is going to be sitting in the safehouse waiting.
That's all I can do, anyway. Can't take a hit, can't reliably hit, can't sneak. I'm an NPC.

I didn’t think anybody could reliably take a hit in CoC. Most games I played had like 3 combats total for an entire campaign.

 

[billd91]

Let's say you have a research-based character in Cthulhu. You've got great Library Use, lots of points in Anthropology and Languages. You're going to make some rolls in a library, then you're going to tell the adventurers where to go. They're going to sneak into the lair, pick locks, knock out the cultists. Your nerd is going to be sitting in the safehouse waiting.
That's all I can do, anyway. Can't take a hit, can't reliably hit, can't sneak. I'm an NPC.

Isn’t this a debate going on in another thread? Play the genre not the rules? Indy doesn’t sit at home researching… and neither does Marcus Brody. You’ll be needed in the field, just take a stouter friend with you, maybe a Great War veteran. Carry an extra weapon and learn how to load it at least so he can keep firing to kill the ghouls, cultists, or even deep ones giving you trouble.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Let's say you have a research-based character in Cthulhu. You've got great Library Use, lots of points in Anthropology and Languages. You're going to make some rolls in a library, then you're going to tell the adventurers where to go. They're going to sneak into the lair, pick locks, knock out the cultists. Your nerd is going to be sitting in the safehouse waiting.

You don't have to be combat capable to be able to sneak in with them and identify glyphs and text they see. There's a lot of difference between "not very combat oriented" and "only good in the library" even in that game.

That's all I can do, anyway. Can't take a hit, can't reliably hit, can't sneak. I'm an NPC.

Nobody in CoC can "take a hit"; its all about either avoiding being hit or reducing the impact of being hit (and in CoC) there's a limited amount you can do there). If you build a scholar, you stay back, learn to dodge, and let the rough boys handle the problems. If they won't let you do that, they're missing the point of that game.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I didn’t think anybody could reliably take a hit in CoC. Most games I played had like 3 combats total for an entire campaign.

Its BRP derived, in a context without much armor. This is my way of saying "you're not wrong".

 

[Thomas Shey]

View attachment 385230
Isn’t this a debate going on in another thread? Play the genre not the rules? Indy doesn’t sit at home researching… and neither does Marcus Brody. You’ll be needed in the field, just take a stouter friend with you, maybe a Great War veteran. Carry an extra weapon and learn how to load it at least so he can keep firing to kill the ghouls, cultists, or even deep ones giving you trouble.

Its not even the rules, as such. Its a set of play expectations, and every bit as sound as people playing a superhero game who expect to kill and loot the villains.

 

[payn]

Its BRP derived, in a context without much armor. This is my way of saying "you're not wrong".

I know they added things like Cthulhu pulp and tech were you are supposed to combat often but I don’t think it’s default.

 

[pemerton]

Let's be honest. TTRPGs aren't 100% combat. But when we're looking at traditional RPGs, let's consider the following...
1) Your character sheet is built for combat.
2) All your powers, abilities, magic items, etc., are largely focused on combat.
3) The rules of the game are predominantly geared towards combat.
4) Combat is the most structured part of the game, where actions and time matter the most.
5) If you strike out "B.S. time" (telling jokes, bio breaks, etc.), combat takes the plurality of active gaming time.

If your character whiffs in combat and doesn't contribute, you're missing out on probably 75% of the session time, 75% of the interaction of the game system design.

From what I've played, I'll say "yes" to Call of Cthulhu, Traveler, and add Warhammer Fantasy, Savage Worlds, and most PbtA variants.
If you can't contribute in combat in any of these systems, your character is basically pointless - and you're going to sit around without much to do.

I've got recent experience GMing a 20-odd session campaign of Classic Traveller. The first combat happened in the third session. I don't know what the most common skill was that was used, but I would guess that the most common throws were either for space travel (which relies on various technical skills) or on the reaction table (applying appropriate social skills). The most combat-oriented character was probably the least significant in terms of table time and contribution to the direction of the fiction.

I've had the same thing happen in basically every system I've played in the past 5 years. It doesn't matter how creative you want to be. The rules just stop you. That's part of what makes the whole experience so boring to me.

In the same Traveller game, the least combat capable character was confronted by an Alien. He ran away, and then found a fire extinguisher, and made a throw (on EDU or INT, maybe?) to use the extinguisher to neutralise the acid from the Alien.

So your characterisation is completely different from my Traveller experience. I would expect Apocalypse World to be pretty different too, from what you describe here. And closer to how I found Traveller.

 

[Retros_x]

Pathfinder is explicitly codified. A GM has the freedom to "improvise" a rule if they don't want to take the time to look it up, but it's generally discouraged (because why are you even playing this game if you're not going to use the rules, right?)
For example, do you want to slide between the legs of the ogre, jump up behind him, catch him off guard, and stab him in the back? Well, that's an Acrobatics maneuver called Tumble Through - augmented with the 1st level rogue feat Tumble Behind. It requires an acrobatics check against the Reflex DC of the opponent, with each space counting as difficult terrain.
And guess what happens if you're not trained in Acrobatics - or don't have the specialized feat?

Interesting, thanks for the explanation! A lot of people told me pathfinder is like D&D but better, but this seems like it actually has a different vibe at least than 5e. Which I don't like.